U.S. Mint Issues New Requirements for Bulk Purchasers

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2021 Morgan Silver Dollar with CC Privy Mark
2021 Morgan Silver Dollar with CC Privy Mark

The United States Mint announced new terms and conditions for members of their Bulk Purchase Program in an effort to further enhance the customer experience while ordering in-demand products, like the recently released 2021 Morgan dollars.

The U.S. Mint’s bulk buying program allows qualifying coin dealers to receive a discount on specific numismatic products when their total purchases reach $10,000 or more.

A Mint statement about the new requirements follows.

United States Mint Issues New Terms and Conditions for all Bulk Purchase Program Members

To address the extraordinarily high volume of automated web robot (BOT) traffic targeted at the Mint’s online sales site (www.catalog.usmint.gov) and to prevent the type of disruptions that Mint customers experienced during the initial pre-order window for the Morgan and Peace Dollars, the Mint has now identified and implemented a solution that we expect will mitigate most of the issues caused by BOT traffic.

To further enhance the customer experience, the Mint is introducing new Terms and Conditions for all bulk purchase program members. Continued membership in the bulk program will be conditional upon agreement to the new terms and conditions, which explicitly restrict, among other things, bulk members’ use of BOTS to purchase Mint inventory reserved for online ordering. The new terms provide that:

  • circumvention of any applicable Mint product order limit is strictly prohibited.

  • bulk purchase program members must not make any effort, either using technological solutions or otherwise, to circumvent the Mint’s product order limits.

  • this prohibition includes orders placed via the Mint’s e-commerce platform, including pre-orders and enrollments; telephone orders; and transactions at Mint retail sites, including any temporary sales sites.

  • examples of circumventing an order limit include, but are not limited to, using BOTS or other method(s) to place multiple orders cumulatively in excess of the product order limit.

  • acting on behalf of a company, any subsidiary of a company or any related commercial entity, or the employees or agents of the company, a subsidiary, or any related commercial entity, for purposes of circumventing a product order limit is prohibited.

The Mint reserves the right to review all orders and to cancel orders that violate a product order limit. If a company violates this strict prohibition against circumvention of any Mint product order limit, the Mint reserves the right to suspend or terminate that company’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program status.

Further, if a company with Numismatic Bulk Purchaser Program status violates this strict prohibition against circumvention of any Mint product order limit, the Mint reserves the right to disregard the company’s annual purchase levels for the relevant two consecutive years for purposes of entry into the Authorized Bulk Purchase Program.

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TheKings714

So nothing changed. I think some refer to this as a “Nothingburger.” How about making the BPP members play by the same rules the rest of us have to.

Steve

You’re right, nothing has changed. Why not get rid of the chosen ones once and for all. Let them start jumping through the same hoops as we do instead of having a private phone number to place their order for thousands of them.

Kaiser Wilhelm

I really like that appellation, Steve, as in “the chosen ones”. Sounds like something right out of The Matrix, and quite possibly not too far off from the truth as it is.

Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

So I was curious and decided to look up these “chosen ones”, and oh my…

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Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

I had never heard of a “Nothingburger”, TK714, so thanks for adding that to my lexicon.

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Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Something caught my eye tonight, TheKings714, in reference to the much closer to ideal situation of having a far more level playing field that would compel the Big Guys to take part in the same competition as the rest of us. Here I’m referring to the following below:

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Last edited 16 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
raphaelz

Bunch of Hogwash, the mints biggest problem is the cloud security provider it uses. It treats the regular average buyer as a possible BOT. It seems it can’t tell a freakin regular user that has purchased small amounts from the mint for the last 10 years. My guess is that same cloude security is in cahoots with those Bulk buyers and the mint officials turn their heads and act as if they are blindsided.

Kaiser Wilhelm

The problem with the Mint officials, raphaelz, has never been that they don’t know what is going on, it’s that they know but just don’t care as long as it doesn’t impact them.

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Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Just out of natural curiosity, I did a bit of research into the cloud security phenomenon.

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Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Daniel

That’s a really good (and simple) point. A long standing account with multiple purchases should be an early check, which if passed, allows the user to continue on as a trusted purchaser.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Amen to that, Daniel, but such a program would require some work on the Mint’s part, and we know from experience how averse to so much as lifting a finger they are when it’s not completely obvious that it’s in their own interest. This otherwise excellent idea is unfortunately one of those which can join more than a few others in the category of “something that would be really nice if they actually cared” department, which at the Mint ends up being the equivalent of the dead file.

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Last edited 16 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
morgan

Why not just let us small collectors order our 1 or 2 coins or sets during the first 24 hours, then let the bulk purchasers buy theirs?

Last edited 19 days ago by morgan
Gott

I like Morgan’s idea. Small collectors first 24 hours with a limit of 5.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Gott, I see that we both agree with morgan’s idea of allowing the individual collectors like us to be put in front of the Bulk Purchasers, which makes all the sense in the world to me. As for the Product Order Limit, from lots of experience I can tell you that any quantity above two or three, and sometimes even just one, is almost certain to cause another frenetic battle for the relatively small number of available coins as compared to the virtual legions of buyers. I understand that some folks like to get a handful of each coin for… Read more »

Gott

Yea your probably right.limit it to 2 or 3 so as many collectors get a fair chance at something instead of nothing.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Well, Gott, I’m not sure I’m 100% correct, but let’s just say I prefer to play the surer odds and to err on the side of caution. Happy collecting!

Kaiser Wilhelm

The Mint counts on us not competing with them but instead with each other.

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Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Besides all those hints, directions, pointers and advisories, always follow this:

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Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

According to that tried and true old adage, this is worth two in the bush…

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Kaiser Wilhelm

By the way, I didn’t mean for the sign and the comment above to exist in a vacuum. It was in reference to being happy to be able to get one of any particular coin at a time from the Mint rather than to not get any at all by always hoping for and/or counting on a higher Household Limit.

Last edited 16 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Roger

In my estimation: limit of 5 does not a small collector make.

Kaiser Wilhelm

I understand your point, Roger, and I think I also know some of the places that seemingly arbitrary figure comes from. Firstly, I would call it the “grandchildren number”, as in one coin is for the collector and one each of the remaining four is meant for the grandkids. Additionally, I would hazard a guess that the desired quantity of five might simply also apply in cases of compulsive hoarding behavior. Last but not least, it could also be the case that it’s being implemented for the quite common and extremely widespread purpose of profiteering, i.e. re-selling at a multiple… Read more »

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Mark D.

Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men???

Kaiser Wilhelm

I do, I do, I do!

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Carl Warren

I am one of those that goes by the ‘grandchildren number’, albeit I need 6 of each and that is what my enrollment has been for the last several years. So, I have several choices. I can split W-mint and S-mint between 4 of them and buy at double or triple the issue price from a dealer. Or I can try and get each grandkid both mints. Or I can just give them the Type 1’s from earlier this year and flip the 4 type 2’s for a couple hundred dollars or so each. Or I can try and get… Read more »

Ron Sheddrick

Great idea. Typical politics. One with the most money wins. Sad that they take the fun out of it. GREED.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Ron, considering the Mint actually makes more money per coin off us little guys as opposed to the price it charges discounted big dealers, I’m not sure they run this particular system based on greed or due to sheer laziness. I mean, it’s a lot easier for them to have a truck pull up and take thousands of coins at one time than for the Mint to have to ship all of those coins around the country individually. Of course, you may well be right about the greed, as I’m just offering an alternative motive, and then again it could… Read more »

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Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Great idea, morgan. Why not let us have the pick of the cream in the saucer for a change and let the greedy resellers lick whatever’s left of the spillage off the Mint floor.

Last edited 19 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
JeffK

Exactly what I’ve been saying for years now. These Commems, Morgans and Peace should have been allowed to be added to the regular enrollment process!

Kaiser Wilhelm

This would solve just about all the problems related to ordering from the Mint once and for all, JeffK, which ironically, and most frustratingly so, is why it’s very unlikely that it will ever be allowed to happen. I would guess the powers that be at the Mint would likely view that as a way of eroding the control they exercise over the buying procedures of us little people, and from what we’ve seen happen the last three or so years that is a big no no for them.

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Roger Smith

Great idea !!

Mammoth

Next Tuesday, when the Type ll Proof ASE’s go on sale, we’ll see how well the US Mint’s ‘new and improved’ ordering system does.

Kaiser Wilhelm

I may have become a cynic in my old age, Mammoth, but I have a distinct inclination to believe that when it comes to the Mint the increasing of efficiency is of less significance than the decreasing of the volume of customer complaints.

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Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

I do believe congratulations are in order. This announcement by the Mint has already become one of the most brilliant exemplars of saying absolutely nothing of substance while simultaneously pretending to weigh in with great gravity and sense of responsibility into and regarding a situation the aforementioned party has in reality not one bit of interest in changing anything about. And if you like, the preceding sentence was while certainly not in fact but most definitely in style an at your service demonstration of what the Mint just did. All kidding and frivolity aside, the Mint just said absolutely nothing.… Read more »

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Last edited 19 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Seth Riesling

The fact that the U.S. Mint has a full-time, U.S. Government job with full benefits, as the position of director of bulk sales is, says it all !!

NumisdudeTX

Kaiser Wilhelm

I wouldn’t be surprised, Seth, if in addition to the aforementioned bureaucrat there is also a deputy, an assistant, a deputy assistant, and an associate director.

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Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Additionally, the assistant deputy, associate deputy, associate assistant, assistant associate and deputy associate. I would like to have the contract for the door signs and desk nameplates for the Mint; that would be a goldmine.

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Last edited 17 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Jake

Yup

Rich

Brilliant assessment Sir Kaiser Wilhelm, absolutely brilliant! Many thanks for your articulate and entertaining summary exposing this US Mint announced statement for the bogus snow job and blarney hokum it is.

Kaiser Wilhelm

You are far too kind and generous, Brother Rich, and you are also most welcome indeed. It is a great joy for me to know that I have been able to shed some pertinent light on an extremely elusive and bordering on shady public institution. Believe me when I say that your exceedingly supportive words offer me powerful encouragement to continue my observations, analyses and reports, so allow me to thank you in return. Off to tilt at the next windmill am I!

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Chris Terp

Guys this is all good news. US Mint has solved a major problem. Believe Mint’s staff is woefully undervalued in current position and should be working on things like a cure for SARS-CoV-2; climate change; cancer, etc. Looking forward to US Mint staff being cherry picked by EPA, CDC, FDA and other USG Departments and Agencies to make our lives and world better.

Kaiser Wilhelm

All good ideas, Chris, but I’m not at all sure they apply in this universe; perhaps in a more forgiving and less demanding alternate one. Considering that The Director Of The Mint, who in my imagination resembles a typically baroque personage in a Kafka novel, was appointed by His Orange Highness, it’s possible the authentic future of Ryder & Company is on the Floridian Peninsula just round Creature Of The Mara Lagoon way.

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Last edited 18 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Lonnie VanSickle

I agree 100%

Kaiser Wilhelm

I’m happy you didn’t agree 110%, Lonnie. It’s far too difficult for me to solve that sort of extremely advanced numerological puzzle since I have a total lack of experience in the field of para-dimensional quasimathematics.

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Last edited 17 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Roger

A step in the right direction. Hard to believe that the Mint had developed such disregard for the “little guy one coin collector” over the past three years. I was always able to order my “one coin” until three years ago. Never will be able to catch up my collection at the affordable prices of the dealers and scalpers.

Kaiser Wilhelm

They took their cues from the very top, Roger, as it was eminently clear exactly whom the “new” (second time around) Director owed his appointment to. You know, somewhat akin to the “When in Rome etc.” routine, and similar to our very own Nero-Caligula-hybrid El Presidente there was much fiddling about and gobs of not caring about the common man. Sound familiar yet? Sorry to hear about the ground you lost collection-wise, Roger; hopefully all is not yet lost. I’ve chosen the route of cutting back on the breadth of my Mint purchases this year to focus my concentration on… Read more »

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Roger Smith

I think this is very good news for the I only want one for my collection, collector. I was one of us that got my 75 Anniversary gold coin in the cart only to get signed off. I was sad but did not raise hell with the mint as it was not to enrich my pocket, only buy a beautiful coin. This is a good start for us, the little man .

Kaiser Wilhelm

I hope I’m correct in surmising, Roger, that the good news is you succeeded in establishing enrollments for each of the three upcoming varieties – W-Proof, S-Proof and W-Uncirculated – of the 2021-Type 2 American Silver Eagle. Unfortunately we can’t say the same thing for the next two installments consisting of the three Morgan Silver Dollars and the one Peace Silver Dollar, but at least the Mint reduced the Product Order Limit for those to 3 each. It will still be a crap shoot, but as true blooded coin collectors we try to not give up and to never lose… Read more »

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Last edited 17 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Seth Riesling

That is a nice pic of the front of the U.S. Mint at Philadelphia, PA (which officially opened on Aug. 14, 1969 & is longer than a football field!). If you are a wealthy coin dealer & go around the right corner, & pay a “fee” to the right person, you can enter through a “special backdoor entrance” & get special deals on coins & medals…Such a deal!!
I just love the street sign that states, “Parking in rear” (my personal favorite spot). Lol.

NumisdudeTX

Kaiser Wilhelm

If you are an average collector lacking any sort of major cash stash and go around the left corner of the U.S Mint in Philadelphia, hide from all of the closed circuit cameras and enter the barely noticeable small unmarked door, you will promptly find yourself on the business end of a swift kick to the cojones and a warning to henceforth make yourself very scarce.
No soup for you. And no parking of any sort either.

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Last edited 17 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Seth Riesling

Lol.
Free parking for bulk purchase coin dealers is available at the U.S. Mint…U.S. Mint personal, concierge service is also available to our special coin dealer bulk buyers (including complimentary hors d’oeuvres & champagne and after-hours shopping)…”others” with low net worth will have their old, used cars towed at your expense!

“No soup for you!” – Seinfeld.

NumisdudeTX

Kaiser Wilhelm

Word on the street is that Bulk Buyers who have consistently made the grade for top VIP status will further receive, all completely complimentary of course, unlimited luxurious Swedish massages, relaxing hot tub interludes, and non-stop circle-rama projections of all the most exciting Mike “Have I Got A Deal For You” Mezack moments.

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Last edited 16 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
sam tweedy

I understand, I understand, Anacs, Anacs, Mezack, Mezack, Mezack,!!!!!

Kaiser Wilhelm

Perhaps, sam, good old Mike Moneymaker should assume the hyphenated moniker Anacs-Mezack since he is after all as good as married to his somewhat sketchy partner.

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Last edited 15 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
sam tweedy

Anacs-Mezack, Anacs-Mezack, Boy have I got a “DEAL” for “YOU”…..UNDERSTAND!!!!!! HURRY!!!!!

Steve

And don’t forget the dealer who is selling 2 proof eagles for 899.00, Type 1 and 2. I guess the advanced release label is worth 600 bucks. Almost forgot it’s an oversize holder. That explains the ridiculous prices these dealers are charging for 2 ounces of silver.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Steve,

These aren’t dealers. Each and every one of them is definitely a profiteer, undoubtedly a grifter and as close to a thief as it’s comfortable to get.

Vachon

It would be nice if the Mint would send us dollar coins again for face value. I’m very disappointed they discontinued that program, even more so as my bank will no longer order dollar coins for me. We’re asked to use these coins but how do I get them if banks won’t? Why is it so hard to do my part?

Kaiser Wilhelm

I’m not sure, Vachon, that neighborhood banks not having dollar coins available to the public is an industry-wide phenomenon. Although your bank has made the decision not to carry them, this might not necessarily be the case at some other bank(s) nearby.
Footnote: Your numismatist’s sharp vision will direct you to the spelling error below.

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Last edited 15 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Carl Warren

I’ve seen and heard the same thing involving quarters where you could only get a roll or 2. Funny thing happened when I stopped at a convenience store on the way to Ocean City MD a couple weeks ago. I got a couple of Kennedy half dollars in change because the cashier claimed they had a hard time getting quarters. Where they got them from is anybody’s guess.

Granted, halves are no longer minted for circulation and the 2 I got were from the 80’s, but when was the last time anyone got halves in change?

Kaiser Wilhelm

Here’s the true irony regarding that situation, Carl. All the Kennedy Half Dollars the Mint produces on an annual basis are of circulation quality anyway. It’s just that until 2021 all those coins had been sold directly by the Mint, only to its own customers and at a rather steep premium. Apparently this year an appreciable quantity of these Half Dollars have already been sold to the Federal Reserve at face value in order for that institution to be able to distribute these coins to various banks around the country.

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Last edited 15 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Vachon, I neglected to address your question regarding the Mint providing its customers with dollar coins at face value. Fact is, the Mint doesn’t sell anything at face value these days with the sole exception of the circulating coinage it provides to the Federal Reserve.

Last edited 15 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Seth Riesling

Vachon & Kaiser –

The Federal Reserve recently issued it’s required report to Congress about $1 coins in its reserves/vaults – they have $1.064 billion $1 coins of a few kinds sitting gathering dust! They have been very slowly drawing down that amount since 2012 (by decree of the Treasury Department on December 13, 2011, no new $1 coins can be ordered by the Fed).
But, local banks can put in a request for $1 coins from their nearest Federal Reserve Bank district office. But, I am not sure if there is a minimum order.

NumisdudeTX

Kaiser Wilhelm

Seth & Vachon,

We know that the majority of the American cash-using public wants nothing to do with any coinage above the quarter dollar level, which is why dollar coins end up in vaults instead of in pockets, purses or cash registers. Since this is a quandary whose resolution can’t be forced on the citizenry short of entirely discontinuing dollar bills, there isn’t much if any point in minting, distributing and/or storing dollar coins. I think this is, barring some sea change in the attitude to the use of dollar coins instead of bills, a dead issue.

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Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm