U.S. Mint Postpones Pre-order Dates for 2021 Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars

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Mint images 2021-D Morgan Silver Dollar
U.S. Mint images of a 2021-D Morgan Silver Dollar. The dollar is one of four with its pre-order release date postponed.

Pre-order launch dates of June 1 and June 7 for the four remaining 2021 Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars have been postponed, the United States Mint said in a statement released late Thursday, May 27.

Revised pre-order dates will be announced "as soon as possible," the U.S. Mint noted, adding that the delay will give them time to make improvements to their online ordering system. The system choked for many Mint customers when pre-sales kicked off May 24 for the first two 2021 Morgan dollars.

The Mint’s entire statement follows:

Note to Editors – United States Mint Postpones Pre-order Windows For Remaining 2021 Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars

The United States Mint is committed to providing the best possible online experience to its customers. The global silver shortage has driven demand for many of our bullion and numismatic products to record heights. This level of demand is felt most acutely by the Mint during the initial product release of numismatic items.

Most recently in the pre-order window for 2021 Morgan Silver Dollars with Carson City privy mark (21XC) and New Orleans privy mark (21XD), the extraordinary volume of web traffic caused significant numbers of Mint customers to experience website anomalies that resulted in their inability to complete transactions.

In the interest of properly rectifying the situation, the Mint is postponing the pre-order windows for the remaining 2021 Morgan and Peace silver dollars that were originally scheduled for June 1 (Morgan Dollars struck at Denver (21XG) and San Francisco (21XF)) and June 7 (Morgan Dollar struck at Philadelphia (21XE) and the Peace Dollar (21XH)).

While inconvenient to many, this deliberate delay will give the Mint the time necessary to obtain web traffic management tools to enhance the user experience. As the demand for silver remains greater than the supply, the reality is such that not everyone will be able to purchase a coin. However, we are confident that during the postponement, we will be able to greatly improve on our ability to deliver the utmost positive U.S. Mint experience that our customers deserve. We will announce revised pre-order launch dates as soon as possible.

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chuck

They could have/ should have done improvements years ago. The delay will likely only increase traffic on the site. Prediction: there will still be problems and frustration.

Steve

They should void out all the sales from the 24th to allow everyone a fair and equal opportunity to get one. And now’s the time to reduce household limits to one for the first 24. Start it all over again if they really want to be fair.

Steve

And when the proof ASE comes out on july 1 the same thing will happen. 30,000 for the dealers and 10,800 orders for the rest @ 25 per house. Won’t last long!

sam tweedy

Watch out for “Bad Gateway” “Bad Gateway” Sorry all got away!!!

Kaiser Wilhelm

That 2021 Type-2 West Point American Silver Eagle and the two subsequent releases, this year’s San Francisco Proof and West Point Uncirculated versions, are already on an Enrollment limit lockdown. Things are getting ever more tight at the Mint and far sooner before their Release than before.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

So unfortunately yes, the release of the 2021-Type 2 W-ASE on July 1 promises to be yet another debacle of biblical proportions.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Mark D.

It could be the of the world with cicada laying just below the surface, ready to rise and usurp our primacy. All hail our cicada overlords! Hey, they’re better than Caligula.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Since our primacy is no more than a long-term self-aggrandizing delusion, a little effort by a bunch of extinct trilobites could quite likely unseat us. In this scenario, Caligula is the puffer fish with no spines.

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Last edited 12 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Who ya gonna call? COIN BUSTERS!

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Kaiser Wilhelm

Hit the nail right on the head, Steve!

Kaiser Wilhelm

It might even be more serious than that, Steve. Considering the Enrollments for these were closed over a week ago, it’s possible there won’t be all that many more of these coins in play by July 1, as in, effectively sold out.

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Last edited 12 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Likely to be sold out in a few minutes past the High Noon opening bell.

Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Chas. Barber

Kaiser ever read the book “Phase Four” check it out, our underlords!!

Well, ASE TyI had ZERO HH limit so 25 is mo bettah, I’d say 3 for 24 hours then open the mEzak Kraken Kage…… As Lt. Phillip Gerrard says “I just don’t care anymore…” ASE Ty2 Proof, sellout before they go on sale is possible… AMPEX has them for $200 pre=pre sale…..yuck

Kaiser Wilhelm

Some really good points there, Chas. However, and here you could say I’m cautious, but I would still call for a 1 coin limit over the first 24 hours because otherwise the bots, big dealers and buying clubs can scoop up the loot all too quickly. Think of it this way: any entity with many thousands of paid surrogate purchasers set loose on Release Day multiplies the effect of its numbers by however many over 1 the Household Limit are allowed by the Mint. Now multiply that by the number of resellers who are able to mount even anywhere near… Read more »

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Last edited 6 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Mike Hunt

Steve — If only it hadn’t been for the fact that I was lucky enough to get one and that my daughter told me she had ordered the other one (for my BDay tomorrow), I would agree with you. (Sorry if that proves I am a 2-faced collector.) But I like your style. I think the household limits of “one per” type, for the first day of order, would be great. But what I would also ask is that the “Mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (ABPP)” be limited to the same number! From my point of view they are only… Read more »

E SOTO

AGREE

Kaiser Wilhelm

Mike, I would go a step further and ask that the Authorized Bulk Purchase Program be discontinued immediately. Those designated bullion buyers were consistently purchasing huge amounts of Mint product for years without the unnecessary incentive of this totally unfair program’s existence. Consequently, there is no economic rationale for this system; it does nothing but disadvantage the individual collector.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
James E Mayes

Yes they need to limit sales to 1 per household. Mint has always catered to the larger orders, so the secondary market can reap their profits.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Exactly, precisely so, and without a shadow of a doubt. You said it, James.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Daniel

Everyone had an equal opportunity

Steve

Does that mean you had success. If you did that’s great but what I’m saying if you take away the 10% reserved for the chosen few and have a limit of one coin per for the first 24 then everyone that wants one will probably get one. It’s not rocket science. It’s about fairness plain and simple.

corners

 It’s about fairness plain and simple.”

If it was really about fairness they would make all silver and gold coins to order instead. But I suspect it wouldn’t be as popular , they would not sell as many or get stuck with extra

Kaiser Wilhelm

That would result in sheer chaos as products are ordered all year long.

Daniel

You’re right I guess.  I guess we all didn’t have an equal opportunity … but the coins were all released to the public at the exact same time. The starter’s gun went off, so to speak. I was on the other side of the globe, hitting refresh at 2am, in a country whose Internet is laughably slow … yet I was successful.  It wasn’t easy, it wasn’t just luck, and I don’t want to sound like I am gloating when you have every right to be annoyed.  Heck, I’ve just spent $250+ for a 2021-W ASE, and $1,200+ for a… Read more »

Chas. Barber

I’ve been shut out, skrewed over & bamboozeled by the mint’s WEBSITE for YEARS & YEARS…..I have gotten some of the hardest releases over the years, the past 2+ years are worse than ever I tell ya, EVER…..I had a V75 AU @ under 1 min. could never get it from cart to buy, nor an AG V75….my friend in Maui is the only one of about 30 I told about the enhanced Rev. ASE that got one, and he got Cert #101!! what nerve….

Kaiser Wilhelm

I guess your island friend is now living under an assumed name.

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Steve

I only had one computer and one person, myself trying. It will be different next time, I’ll have a bunch of people trying. Why not everyone else does.

Kaiser Wilhelm

That’s for sure. The bigger resellers each have hundreds if not thousands of paid surrogate buyers making purchases for them. This is precisely what you’re up against whenever you are trying to get a low mintage product from the Mint; it’s not a pretty picture.

Richard Hutchison

This is absolute the way it should be done!

Richard Hutchison

Sorry, this comment should read “This absolutely the way it should be done!”

Kaiser Wilhelm

That is the only plan that would work, Steve; no bulk sales beforehand and a strict limit of 1 per household for the first 24 hours. It would be awesome if they implemented it, but I’m not holding my breath.

Last edited 6 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
gary

bulls–t

Daniel

You’re right. I was on the other side of the globe, hitting refresh at 2am, with a country whose Internet is laughably slow … yet I was successful.

I guess we all didn’t have an equal opportunity … but the coins were all released to the public at the exact same time.

Kaiser Wilhelm

You were among the fortunate, Daniel, as these coins were also released to legions of hired buyers who each scoop up the entire Household Limit for their various employers; the big dealers, the buying clubs and assorted other price-multiplying resellers. Consequently, the individual collectors’ chances were drastically reduced by the overwhelming efforts of all these strictly mercenary competitors.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Daniel

Well I bought more than I “need”, and certainly put myself out there to create our own coinnews.net buyers club a few weeks ago, but there was zero interest.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Don’t feel bad about that for a second, Daniel. The more I learn about the functioning of buyers clubs, the more I realize that simple community of interest isn’t enough to make one happen and/or work. The fact is that residential proximity is extraordinarily helpful if not even absolutely essential because that is the core ingredient for providing the trust required for that particular kind of enterprise to be successful. The most influential buyers club I am aware of is the Brooklyn Buyers Club, which depending on the level of interest in what the Mint happens to be releasing at… Read more »

Last edited 13 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

How can you ever be on the other side of this planet if the earth is flat?

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Last edited 12 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

A man of few words, but when he speaks up it means something.

Last edited 12 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

There is in fact a rather iconic role model for just that modus operandi.

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Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Sometimes, Daniel, the equality of opportunity equates to the opportunity to equally experience the lack of opportunity. But that’s just my equally opinionated opinion.

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Kaiser Wilhelm

All of us here are on a level playing field. That’s precisely what a cabal of active slaveowners said when they declared everyone equal in 1776.

Last edited 9 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
chuck

I did not attempt to order these because my whereabouts at the time did not allow access to the site. I disagree that those who were successful should have their orders cancelled. There is really no “fair” in life. Many “limited” coins I wanted I did not get. Thus, for years, I have always believed the mint should list such coins as subscriptions (it would help level the playing field and make things somewhat “fair”). Dealers and flippers of course would likely complain that it was not “fair”. But, subscriptions seems to have worked well with the 5 oz ATB… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

I agree with all your points, chuck. You’ve laid out a design of what would be a fair playing field for everyone. Sadly, the Mint doesn’t play that way.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

The 24th is water under the bridge. As for the rest, absolutely a one coin limit.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Don

Really Steve, So do they need to go back and get all the coins from people when there was an issue with the site ( many many times) improvements need to be made for sure.part of collecting is demand for limited products, if they made enough for everyone how much fun would that be.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Just by way of further explanation, Steve, voiding all the completed sales now would be unfair. On the other hand, vastly improving the circumstances regarding any future sales would be prudent, but I’m not exactly holding my breath.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Larry

I agree! I was able to secure 5 o’s after all the bs with the website and am just grateful. I missed out on the V75 coins and a few other limited issues. I just keep trying and hope for the best. If I don’t get them, there’s always something on the horizon to look forward to!

Kaiser Wilhelm

You clearly have a great sense of optimism, Larry. That will stand you in good stead all of your life; I’ve been saved by mine many a time.

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Last edited 6 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Amit A Patel

Everyone had the same opportunity to grab these on the 24th. Not everyone will get one unfortunately.

Steve

Lots of people had others securing coins for them, this time I’m doing the same.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Unfortunately that would be unfair to those who were willing to play the “game” that day. Going forward is a different story, with 1 coin per household being ideal.

Last edited 13 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Michael

I’ve been shut out before but managed to get 1 of each. How fair is that to me?

Kaiser Wilhelm

No, it wouldn’t be at all fair to deprive you of what you’ve already acquired.

Last edited 10 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

May 24 is a done deal. Going forward the Mint should set an order limit of 1 each.

Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Chas. Barber

I agree but make it 2 for 24hours…after that whatever, they won’t last, just hopefully a wider Distb. Why now are they “improving” the website, it’s been like slow death for hot issues since 2017!! Ryder must have got caught with the minted but unsold V75s, Rev Proof ASEs & others that SO w a # well below the total mintage made….just curious George

Kaiser Wilhelm

Ryder came in all hell bent for leather and rather quickly fell off the back end of his horse. I think his story at the Mint does not have a happy ending.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Footnote. Remember that Ryder was appointed by the same hopelessly dysfunctional individual who put the current “way in above his head” hapless Postmaster General in place. That about says it all.

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Chas. Barber

Can they make me return those 1968 -S proof sets for $5….more than value @ LCS

Kaiser Wilhelm

According to the theoretical resurrection of the FDR Gold Confiscation Act of 1933, all your sunshiny coins have to go bye bye also! 😉

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Last edited 6 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Just a guy

What! I worked really hard to get the coins that day. Why should they cancel my order? I didn’t do anything wrong so why should I pay the price ??

Kaiser Wilhelm

You’re right, Just. You played by the rules currently in existence and shouldn’t be penalized for that.

Going forward, on the other hand, the “game” will hopefully have better rules.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Steve

Nobody is going to cancel your order

Kaiser Wilhelm

Whew, finally someone settled that “nerve wracking” issue!

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Kaiser Wilhelm

Not to take anything away from you by any means, chuck, but I think we can all pretty much agree that these days it doesn’t exactly take the powers of Nostradamus to prognosticate what kind of collectors’ lives bedevilment the Mint will come up with next.

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c_q

well finally they realized there is a problem and are trying to do something about it took long enough. but it doesn’t really have anything to do with silver availability – they could have made a clad version of these coins with very limited quantities and the web site problem would still be there. if they really didn’t have enough silver, they could just allow people to order coins provided they send in a requisite amount of silver to melt down and make their coins with (kinda like the mints were originally set up to do in the 19th century)… Read more »

Steve

One per house would have solved most of the problems. It’s just that simple, after 24 hours have at it.

Kaiser Wilhelm

For whatever reason or intent we aren’t privy to, the Mint lately seems to have developed a rather steadfast aversion to the one item per household order limit.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

I may have neglected to mention, Steve, that I couldn’t agree more. If only.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Cool maybe, c_q, but quite frankly that scenario is one that might have been workable only back in the much earlier days of our country. Things don’t run that way now.

Last edited 13 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

This would be different, if the Mint mandated that for every precious metal coin you wanted to buy from them you would be required to forward to the Mint an equivalent amount of the metal in question. Your retail price would then be the Mint’s processing costs minus the value of the weight of the precious metal you had provided them with.

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Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Igor

The Mint portal always crashes due to the high volume of simultaneous users attempting to log on to the site. They must upgrade their servers/software to handle 100,000 (or whatever is appropriate) simultaneous users. Perhaps Mint could look into selling limited editions as a “bundle” select; e.g., both Morgan dollars could be ordered with one request. This would reduce time users must spend on the site and reduce the time taken to navigate and individually order the coins. Less time on site would enable more users to access sie over time.

corners

I bet they just don’t want to spend the money on the upgrades. They need rockstar server hardware upgrades but will only need that level 5-10 times a year for 30 minutes at a time.The rest of the year it will be idle.

Daniel

And that’s exactly how the worlds largest cloud computer provider Amazon Web Services (AWS) started.

“What do we do with all this extra computing power we put in to handle the Christmas rush?”
”why don’t we resell the use of it through the other 11 months?”

Kaiser Wilhelm

I was just thinking what would happen if the opposite were the case. What if the Mint arranged for all these special product releases and nobody showed up?

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Last edited 12 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Correspondingly, fewer individual orders required would undoubtedly serve to facilitate the thousands of buying agents for the mass resellers to be able to clean out the Mint’s available stock even more efficiently and rapidly. This is a no win situation.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Roger

Sent this response to the US Mint: Appreciate your notice. Someone penned a definition of insanity as: Doing the same thing, the same way, over and over and expecting different results. I am starting to believe that only the “insane” can hold upper management positions in the US Mint. Of course your web site will always be overloaded; because your product is in great demand. There is one recourse and only one recourse: Give us collectors a longer period of time to place an order. There is one way and only one way to effect this solution: Reduce the household… Read more »

Steve

100% accurate, well stated roger. And if management doesn’t get it right this time heads should roll! These are for collector’s, aren’t they?

Defines

100% agree. As is the system is ripe for exploit by scalpers. I went through the entire checkout and submitted my order four times (with myriad errors along the way) just to finally be told I was banned for “excessive usage”. I’m a software engineer and am well aware that my usage was NOT excessive by any definition or stretch of the imagination. However, I see completed ebay sales from the same “dealer” of multiple 10-coin lots at 2x or more markup, despite the household limits. That’s simple scalping; it’s unethical and terrible for the hobby. I would rather pay… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

Due to whatever “philosophical” premise the Mint operates under the system is gamed for the benefit of the resellers. That is why we are always left out.

Kaiser Wilhelm

That “excessive usage” notice is both irritating and insulting. Irritating because it clearly gets in the way of making our intended purchase(s), and insulting because the Mint thinks we’re going to believe that bit of malarkey.

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Kaiser Wilhelm

That’s our perception, Steve. The evidence indicates this is not the Mint’s view.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

The folks at the Mint are essentially entitled to do whatever they wish within certain guidelines that are imposed upon them by the Congress and the Secretary of the Treasury. Regardless, we are quite often left wondering how some of these decisions are arrived at; that still remains a mystery.

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Joe

Great point

Kaiser Wilhelm

Thanks for taking concrete action as one more important voice in what we can only hope is not always going to be the wilderness. One would think that at some point in time someone at the Mint will finally listen, or is that too farfetched to look forward to?

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Joe

The whole thing is a scam. How on one hand the mint is using limited silver as an excuse, yet upped the silver content in the silver proof sets starting from 2019? The silver proof sets went from 90% silver 1992 to 2018 to 99.99% starting in 2019. Secondly if they had used the enrollment programs like they do with other releases maybe it wouldn’t have been so bad. This should also be a good time to stop the bulk programs as well. Most slimy dealers get the bulk then send them out to be rated by NGC. Then in… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

The Mint > Big Buyer > Grader > Reseller scam chain is a work of true grifting beauty. Even the sharpies of Las Vegas could take lessons from this constellation of shysters.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

I don’t think this is a case of the chicken or the egg, but rather one of the chicken and the egg. The resellers ask the Mint for special treatment, and the Mint is more than happy to oblige the resellers. Within this framework the collector is invisible.

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Kaiser Wilhelm

Those geniuses of instant profit were foresighted enough to introduce their own coinage just in case the far less clever politicians ran the US Dollar into the ground.

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David

One coin of each mint mark, for the first 24 hours is a great idea! I ordered as fast as I could. After a lot of tries, I was able to get one of each in my bag. Went to check out and the site crashed again! After 20 minnetes, I finiley gave up! I can’t see paying 4 times, the cost for a coin I should have been able for $85. I will try again on the next round. If I can’t get one of each at cost, I won’t collect them. I am very disappointed in the mint… Read more »

Brad

I see lots of great points on here. You cancel culture people are so off base. For anyone that wants to trade my new O for last year v75 im the guy. I missed out out on the v75 last year. No one was calling for those orders to be canceled. I want my v75 as bad as u wanted a CC or O.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Calling for orders to be canceled and so-called “cancel culture” don’t have anything to do with one another. Also, the 2020 v75 privy mark ASE is a historical prize, while this year’s Morgan and Peace editions are great but not quite as valuable.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
corners

Im up for trading 1 O or 1 CC for a 1 V75 also. I also missed out then

Kaiser Wilhelm

To facilitate that as a one for one exchange you will be obliged to find some clueless soul who happily walks around with a big “Sucker” on his forehead.

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Last edited 12 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

Found someone to point me in the direction of the aforementioned cancel culture…

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Kaiser Wilhelm

Amen, brother. You said it all, in a nutshell.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Good for you for not falling for the “buy the coin at any cost” trick! That just encourages more of the same Mint shenanigans since that institution knows its output is sure to increase in popularity with every significant price markup caused by artificial scarcity.

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dondk

I welcomed the email last night. I was fretting what miracle I would have to pull off to get just one coin of each. Likewise, I agree with 1 per household, it made me sick looking at all the eBay auctions for lots of 10 coins. Especially those with single digit feedback or those sellers whom other auctions have nothing to do with Numismatics.

domenic

Keep in mind..EVEN with their servers updated. There IS going to be a massive website crush when the coins are released. Even if everyone was limited to 1. It will mean more folks will get at least 1 coin…but the website will still have heavy traffic during those opening minutes….still doesnt guarantee everyone will get even 1 coin. I was lucky i was able to get 1 of each….it was a frustrating process for sure….DEMAND on these is going to push the limits of the website regardless….They are MORGANS! I vote keep the mintage as is…. its a good number

Kaiser Wilhelm

However, putting the Household Limit at 1 coin has the very important consequence of forcing a massive reduction in the number of coins that the thousands of reseller surrogate buyers are be able to scoop out of the Mint’s supply. No matter how you cut it, this positive development brings about a vast increase in the number of coins available for purchase by the individual collector. I’d say that’s a big step in the right direction.

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Kaiser Wilhelm

Unfortunately, domenic, whether you are aware of it or not, your “vote” for a Household Limit of no less than 10 coins is in fact a decision that most benefits really big resellers such as Mike “Sold Out Limited Edition” Mezack and other similar serial profiteers.

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Mammoth

We can be sure this decision came from the mint director himself, due to pressure from above.

In addition to the numerous complaints posted on this website, evidently enough coin collectors complained to their congressional representatives – who then told the mint director to fix the mint’s website.

If you endure another fiasco when ordering coins, don’t stop with sharing your experience here, but go ahead and also contact your Congressman/woman.

Carl

Don’t get your hopes up, after the problems last year with the limited mintage coins and the May 24 mess until they limit how many are allowed to be signed on to the website at the same time the same things will be repeated.

Charlie

The mint changed the amount of enrollment eagles to a max of 25 per household. They havent shipped the Morgans yet, supposedly, take the orders that were processed and change the limit to 1 coin each type. Eliminate those 18 Special Dealers, offer the coins on a specific day, specific time. Give the people with no success a chance but the folks that managed an order still have 1 of the coins they ordered. The household limit should be 1 for the first 24 hours.

corners

I personally don’t think it would be right to take coins back from people that already ordered them. Want to limit it to 1 on future coins releases, im fine with that.

Howard Klein

The GSA CC dollar sales back in the late 70’s reduced all orders larger than 5 coins to 5 coins shipped and the excess payment refunded. That was when there was no internet or personal computers, just mail in orders.

Kaiser Wilhelm

The peculiar thing is, Howard, that although I am 74 years old and have obviously spent the greater part of my life not being aware of computers even as a futuristic concept, it is now difficult for me to picture a world, or a life, for that matter, without them as an everyday device. I can only imagine that is how my parent’s (“Greatest”) generation must once have thought about television, and my grandparents regarded radio long before them.

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corners

Just curious, why did they do that back then?

I don’t think it would be fair if they wiped everyone’s orders out though. Even when they reduce it to 1 per household people are still going to miss out. I wouldn’t be bothered if it was 5

Kaiser Wilhelm

I’ll buy that much, Howard, but please don’t bring the Pony Express into this.

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Kaiser Wilhelm

Charlie, I assume that you do realize that an Enrollment of 25 coins per household for the 2021-W Type-2 Proof ASEs, 2021-S Type-2 Proof ASE’s, and 2021-W Type-2 Unc ASEs completely cleans out the Mint’s entire stock of each and every one of all three of those coins long before any of their official Release Dates. Another budding fiasco.

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Jake

I find so much humor in this debacle. Typical government failure, almost as bad as the V75 coin. These products should be enrollments, and the mint should have plenty of Monies

Seth Riesling

I agree with you totally Jake! The Mint successfully did a series of Proof silver medals with Theodore Roosevelt/Wildlife theme years ago by a special subscription. You had to order the first one & then commit to ordering up to 3 each (a different animal design on the reverse) if I remember & after a month the subscription period ended & they produced the 4 different medals in the series & sent them out in order like once every month. Everyone who wanted them got them & the Mint didn’t have to melt any. They even made the most popular… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

Seth and Jake, a big amen to both of your comments.

David Price

us mint is not run by the government

Kaiser Wilhelm

I’m afraid it is. The Director of the Mint reports to the Secretary of the Treasury.

E SOTO

TO LITTLE

TO LATE

Cek

“Too.”

Mark D.

Two o’s.

Kaiser Wilhelm

That’s what she said.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Pardon my obsolete expression. I meant to say “That’s what they/them said.”

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Joe

If 500,000 coin buyers land on the Morgan “Add to Bag” page at exactly 12:00:00 pm…and place 1+ more Morgans in the “Shopping Cart” … all the coins will be sold well before 12:01:00 pm. I had no problem adding the coins to the shopping cart. The failure occurs when my credit card is being processed. “Web server down” … “Bad Gateway” At that point the show is over. I suspect the US Mint is performing some logic here… IF “Buyer = 25 Morgans” Go To “Process Order” ELSE “Bad Gateway.” Any logic trick can be performed here…Geo-location, Credit Card… Read more »

Bob

I experienced te same issues Joe, could not sign in and the phones were busy. The first offering was gone in 10 minutes but I did try as a “guest” and this worked for me, I got six coins from the second offering, New Orleans (O) confirmed.

Kaiser Wilhelm

The parallel issue at work here is how much of this web traffic is individual collectors simply attempting to buy a coin for themselves and how much of it is mercenary buyers who by the thousands are trying to scoop up as much as is available and by design at the maximum household limit each. Upgrading the capability of the Mint’s web site and facilitating quicker processing of credit cards can only serve to improve ordering convenience and functionality up to a prohibitive structural limit, that very point at which the energetic efforts of the assorted mass buyers begin to… Read more »

Last edited 13 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
jwp

The web site is truly a problem. When they so-call fix it, will we be better off with the Devil we know – or is the FIX worse than before, Remember ” the USM is the government and they are here to help you. We all need to be careful what we wish/hope for.

Daniel

🙂 I got the reference

Kaiser Wilhelm

Remember that old expression “good enough for government work”? And here I’m putting the emphasis on remember.

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Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Chris

Don’t get your hopes up. Any upgrade in the ordering system will most likely include the implementation of an on-line “Waiting Room”, as is common in first day ticket sales on sited like Ticketmaster. You’ll sit in a queue and by the time you gain access to the product ordering page it will be sold out. Sure you won’t get the “Gateway” message, but probably won’t get the coins either. I do agree that the bulk ordering program for the select few dealers should be eliminated. It makes absolutely no business sense, and if the ordering system is improved then… Read more »

Steve

Yes do away with the bulk program for a handful of flippers. Let them have at it for their monster boxes that the average person can’t get. Enough is enough, let the collector’s have a chance.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Massive applause!

Kaiser Wilhelm

The bulk ordering program entirely eliminated AND an across-the-board permanent one coin/item per household ordering limit for the first 24 hours implemented.

Kaiser Wilhelm

It appears that there is a ongoing gross underestimating of the huge amount of mass purchasing that takes place on Mint Release Days, all of it in Household Limit increments, courtesy of the thousands of mercenary surrogate buyers operating on behalf of the big resellers. These dealer proxy buying enterprises exceed by what amounts to many multiples of the number of coins that are initially lost to the individual collector thanks to the mere 10% represented by the Advance Bulk Purchase Program. In short, if the profiteers aren’t able to shaft us one way they clearly have long ago discovered… Read more »

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Kaiser Wilhelm

Elimination of the bulk ordering program, while prudent, won’t do nearly as much toward getting a coin into the hands of the individual collector as a 1 coin per household limit.

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Last edited 9 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Ken T

Instead of a “mintage limit”, there should be a “time limit”. All limited edition US Mint coins should last, lets say, 72 hours. The first 24 hours you have a limit of one per household. After 24 hours, you have an unlimited household limit. After 72 hours after initial release, the coin is declared “sold out”. A true supply and demand scenario.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Unfortunately that would be a recipe for chaos all around. Mintage limits are absolutely necessary, but the essential ingredient for egalitarian and orderly Mint sales that is at least as important and significant is a permanent 24 hour one coin per household ordering limit and a complete elimination of the bulk advance purchasing program.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

I should clarify, Ken, that I was referring to special products only when I said that mintage limits were imperative. Other than for those, it’s not really of any consequence.

Last edited 14 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Charlie

The 2012 San Fran 2 coin anniversary silver eagle set had a 30 day ordering window. The 2013 West Point anniversary set had a 30 day ordering window. they sold around 275,000 of each one. If you put ordering windows with limits of 1 for 24 hours anybody that wants a product has the ability to get it. There is no 300% markup on ebay because it eliminates the immediate market. Those two items can stillbe purchased for around $150 each. The people and dealers that sell them havent lost money on them but these new collectors dont get shafted.… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

I seriously doubt many collectors would consider a coin or set of coins with a 275,000 population to be of any special numismatic significance, which is likely why those haven’t risen appreciably, if at all, in value. Dealers would have little or no interest in a product they can’t put a considerable markup on, especially so because there wasn’t a mintage limit assigned to them to begin with, as that is the main driving force for a rise in pricing. Since these items apparently weren’t in very great demand from the get go, putting an ordering window on them essentially… Read more »

Last edited 12 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Mmk

Hi
Kaiser ,
I enjoy reading your posts . They’re well written and informative, seems like you understand the issues well.
I am actually a collector who turned into a profiteer , as I realized that’s sadly became the norm.I have no doubt that many have done the same ,from a hobby to a source of income .
Your point on mintage levels is extremely accurate.I hope someone at the mint is reading these comments.
Just wondering are you of German origin ?

Kaiser Wilhelm

Thank you, MmK; it’s very nice of you to say that. I do try my best to provide facts rather than offer opinions, and at least according to your kind response it appears I perhaps succeed at that to some extent. From what I can ascertain of your inclination these days I suspect you are still at heart a collector first and a reseller/flipper second. Your dedication to numismatics isn’t completely hidden by your current commercial enterprise. You were very close. I am actually of Austrian origin but also spent quite a bit of time in Germany before finally settling… Read more »

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Last edited 12 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Charlie

I believe the mint says it sells collector grade products. It does not say it sells directly to collectors. 275,000 may seem high for a mintage but how many collectors have your set of lincoln cents and every year they search for the best P and D they can find to continue their sets. Billions every year doesnt deter them. Why? Because its fun. How much fun is it stressing on release day if your going to snag the coin to fill the hole for this years issue? Too many collectors arent having fun. And besides how would you catagorize… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

I have to admit you are right, Charlie; your contention that there is altogether far too much consternation and confusion generated in the collecting community regarding who gets how much of what (and when) is right on point. For that matter there is the additional also extremely relevant issue of how all items of a numismatic nature can with the best of hopes and intentions be the most fairly allocated. Your essay [“comment” doesn’t really do it justice] also manages to provide a rather thorough and cogent summary of the many and varied problems associated with trying to fit all… Read more »

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Last edited 12 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Seth Riesling

So true…the tripartite numismatic hobby/industry/science is very complex. But, the U.S. Mint has been in action, or inaction, since 1792 & should have learned a thing or two to keep debacles of all kinds they have caused from happening over & over. As the saying goes, “Learn from the past, or you are doomed to repeat it.”

NumisdudeTX

Kaiser Wilhelm

Excellent observations, Seth; I can always count on you to cut right to the core of the issue(s) at hand. Quite frankly, my friend, this really big question is a serious puzzler for me. One might think experience brings with it enough accumulated knowledge and relevant wisdom to effectively deal with all manner of ongoing problems, difficulties and conundrums. Life experience, however, has taught me that some of the more complicated dysfunctions of behavior and/or operation, regardless of what positive resources might be available, can easily go on for decades without having a workable solution applied to them. For my… Read more »

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Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
corners

But how does that compare to the 2011 anniversary set you left out?

Charlie

The mintas far as collector coins go is a business. Does anyone really think they can control who buys their products? As far as a business goes what is broken? They sold 345,000 coins in lets say 20 minutes. thats around $29,325,000. Do you really think they have a problem?

Kaiser Wilhelm

You’re right, the Mint doesn’t have a financial problem; we as would-be consumers of the Mint’s products have the problem. The Mint can sell its products one of two ways. The first is what they’ve been doing all along, which is providing the greater part of each release to the big resellers with almost no thought given to the needs of the individual consumer. This way the Mint unloads all its product and the profiteers are free to sell same at however many multiples of the Mint price they wish. The other method would be to stop authorized bulk sales… Read more »

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Last edited 10 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Seth Riesling

“No Soup for you!!” – Seinfeld – (my all-time favorite episode, “The Soup Nazi”). That actor’s voice is ringing in my ears now & reminds me of what inept U.S. Mint Director David J. Ryder is shouting to all coin collectors who are customers of the Mint.

NumisdudeTX

Jake

Lol I love that episode. I think of this guy when I think of Mr Ryder

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Seth Riesling

Lol. That is too funny!, & sadly so true Jake.

NumisdudeTX

Kaiser Wilhelm

That’s not just brilliant but oh so very appropriate and absolutely on target, Jake. Mega kudos!

Last edited 9 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

My own favorite is the Babu Bhatt restaurant owner episode in which the typically hapless Jerry manages to get poor Babu deported. Babu castigating Jerry with “You are a very, very bad man” while wagging his finger in Jerry’s face is beyond priceless.

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Last edited 12 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Ken O’Donnell

This is just damage control. They were Greedy and tried to screw the American public.
“We ThePeople“won’t stand for this . Time to take our country back from the Democratic Party. Who are nothing more than socialists

Kaiser Wilhelm

OMG. Coins, anyone?

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Harry Kahl

First of all, stop the ABPP, the Mint will still sell every coin to individual buyers, Second, lower the limit. Third, set up loyalty program so that members have first shot. May be set up a seniority program, ex: 10 yr. members before 9 yr, members.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Excellent ideas, every one of them.

Daniel

I’m in the upper echelons of the 1% … so this really isn’t anything anyone here needs to worry about, but International customers aren’t able to join the enrolments program, so I will also miss on on the v2 ASE.
So that means I am willing to trade Morgans.

Last edited 11 days ago by Daniel
Kaiser Wilhelm

We need more specificity here. Does this 1% apply, for example, to Dubai, to Vietnam, to Finland, to Belarus or perhaps even to Burkina Faso; it does matter.

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Last edited 10 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Seth Riesling

Kaiser,

It’s the 1% of Niue! Lol.

NumisdudeTX

Kaiser Wilhelm

Tarnation, Seth! That’s one I wanted on my list but just couldn’t recall!

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RonnieBGood

I agree with all of you on this one, however, I will give the mint a thumbs up for at least trying this time!

Kaiser Wilhelm

Oh yes indeed, they are very trying. 🙂

Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Stanley Rekant

I experienced the inability to purchase one CC privy silver dollar.The best approach is a lottery with proof of vaccination required.The presale must be voided.Otherwise the US Mint is complicit in a sham sale.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Whoa nelly, are you scrolling, rolling or just plain trolling. I honestly can’t tell!

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Daniel

It’s the gosh darn lizard people in charge.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!

Kaiser Wilhelm

The Lord Gecko Himself, all too recently gone into exile at Mar-a-Lizardo upon appointing the Postmaster General’s vacuous think-alike to likewise run the Mint into the ground, is the ultimate culprit behind all this corrosive consternation.

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Rooster

Don’t get your hopes up about a fix. This isn’t the first “apology” letter from the mint regarding this issue.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Think of it though. Seriously heightened job security for the official U.S. Mint scribe.

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Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Fred G

I am soliciting commenters’ responses to my Mint experience.

On May 24th, I placed an order for 5 each of the Morgans. I got an email acknowledgement at 12:15, then an order confirmation at 4:42.

On May 26th, this order was cancelled “because the item(s) are no longer in our inventory and are not available for backorder.”

I am curious:

1.  if any commenters’ orders were similarly cancelled, or 
2. if any commenters have an order number SUBSEQUENT to 096332XX (not actual order #) whose order has NOT been cancelled.

Thanks, 
fred

Kaiser Wilhelm

If it’s any consolation (which I rather doubt considering the circumstances), Fred, this is not the first time this has happened. The shenanigans you describe also occurred upon this year’s earlier release of the 2021-W Type 1 American Silver Eagle, the last ASE to have the old (original) Reverse. From what I gathered in my reading of various Mint customers’ experiences with that sale there were quite a few of them whose alleged purchases simply vanished into the ozone. They were in fact notified by the Mint that this was happening to them but on the other hand were never… Read more »

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Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Daniel

Hmmm. I haven’t had an email, but the “pending” charge on my credit card has just disappeared 🙁

Last edited 11 days ago by Daniel
Kaiser Wilhelm

Don’t panic yet, Daniel. I don’t know what card you used, but it’s not unheard of for charges to temporarily disappear from your online display as they transition from the pending to the charge incurred category. Wish you the best with that!

By the way, I’ve put my very best man on it…see below.

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Carl Warren

That happened a couple of times to me (there, gone. there again, gone again) with the ASE type 1 enrollment. Mint order page showed pending. Eventually, 2 or 3 weeks later I got the product shipped email and the cc was charged

Kaiser Wilhelm

All’s well that ends well, just like Dorothy getting back to Kansas.

Morgan

Don’t just complain here to the shabby way the Mint treats collectors and the incompetent ways it conducts its business. Also post your comments on the Mint’s
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/UnitedStatesMint/ Whatever you think of Facebook, it seems someone at the Mint actually reads them. Whether they decide to respond . . . .

Kaiser Wilhelm

Time to put up billboards at each Mint facility asking if they’ll ever take the needs of the individual collectors rather than just those of the giant resellers into consideration.

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Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Jake

Coin news has better management than FB. The mint is aware, as we are also. Forward Ahead and Moving on to the next one.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Appears CN evicted Caligula long before FB; he sure hasn’t been seen here lately.

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Last edited 9 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
domenic

I SWEAR the mint site is still so frustrating. !!!..Has anyone been successful subscribing to the new ASE/new reverse 2021W Proof Dollar.??? It says its available for subscription….but no buttons that say subscribe!!!!

Kaiser Wilhelm

Clearly you haven’t heard yet, domenic, that all Enrollments for the three upcoming varieties of 2021-Type 2 American Silver Eagles have been shut down. Except for what’s left of each on the three individual Release Days, these coins are effectively sold out.

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Last edited 11 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Harry Kahl

Maybe we need a national and world boycott on the big coin dealers. Let them set on all those 2021 dollars and just wait for them to drop the price to below what they paid.

Pete

Does anyone know of your orders says back order for the Morgan they plan on cancelling it?

Kaiser Wilhelm

That is one of the best suggestions ever. Something has to slow those weasels down!

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Last edited 10 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Carl Warren

I considered getting the Morgan and Peace dollars, but then I had a “Hello… McFly” moment figuring that trying to order them was going to be an exercise in futility. So I’m passing on them for now.

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Kaiser Wilhelm

Apparently that will also be the case with the three varieties of 2021-Type 2 ASEs.

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Last edited 10 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Rooster

Just got this from the mint: In a message released Friday, May 28, we made reference to a global shortage of silver. In more precise terms, the silver shortage being experienced by the United States Mint pertains only to the supply of silver blanks among suppliers to the U.S. Mint. Please see the updated message below reflecting this clarification. The United States Mint is committed to providing the best possible online experience to its customers. The Mint is being impacted by silver blank shortages among its suppliers. The demand for many of our bullion and numismatic products is at record… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

Great how the Mint equates the shortage of silver blanks to the shortages of the website.

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Last edited 10 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Rooster

Hope they straighten this out but will not get my hopes up.

Kaiser Wilhelm

I think, Rooster, that for the moment the Mint isn’t able to procure any more silver planchets and doesn’t care about the problems of the website.

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Last edited 8 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Jim Longacre

Allow only one of each to be ordered in the first 24 hours, problem solved.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Always a great idea. Experience has demonstrated that it makes a really big difference.

Last edited 10 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Mark D.

More humor from the Mint:

Here’s how to get the most from our list of upcoming product releases:

• Step 1: Browse the list for your favorite products or a certain keepsake that catches your eye.

• Step 2: Click its “Remind Me” button to be notified when the product goes on sale.

• Step 3: Order your treasure as soon as it’s available. That’s it—go ahead and start shopping!

Kaiser Wilhelm

I think there’s a misunderstanding about the Remind Me button, Mark. It really means they’re reminding you that when you go to order the item it will again be long gone.

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Last edited 9 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Kaiser Wilhelm

The Mint sent out an email today that did more to confuse the current situation regarding the Morgan and Peace Dollars than it did to clarify it. On the one hand it stated that the Mint couldn’t get enough silver blanks to make all the coin totals they had planned to make of the six varieties of Silver Dollars, but immediately thereafter, and effectively as part of the same thought, it further stated that the solution to the problem was to improve their website. I’m left wondering if the two different points of the email were in fact purposely blended… Read more »

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Last edited 10 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Steve

The mint is out for the mint and the thousands of dealers across the country. Who came up with this ridiculous idea of letting the AP’s in to scoop up 10% of the total mintage. It was hard enough securing a coin before this absurd idea. How many years have they been getting away with paying 2 or so bucks over spot to get their monster boxes and then charge collectors stupid money. Should get a petition going and gather thousands of names to get these vultures stopped once and for all. And then of course reduce the HHL to… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

You’ve said it for all of us here, Steve, except those who still believe the Mint means well and that the Tooth Fairy will leave Morgans and ASEs under our pillows.

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Last edited 4 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Chas. Barber

Does Rodney Dangerfield Jr. write this mint PR poppycock?> stuff, more like a yuck yuck joke, then a real memo….. This has been going on for YEARS and YEARS, what changed did Biden threaten Ringo Ryder? Or like

Kaiser Wilhelm

Since there is such a huge logic lapse at the narrative center of this latest Mint screed, one could make the case that beyond being laughable it is completely nonsensical.

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Last edited 9 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
joera

This has been a problem for years and it always will be. There are past articles talking about the same thing and that the mint was going to do something about it but it’s the same years later.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Which is why, joera, I have to point out that perhaps this isn’t a failure on the Mint’s part either to respond or to reform after all, but an entirely willful ignoring of the individual collectors’ needs. The Mint seems to be fixed, perhaps entirely and even permanently so, in an all-around pro-reseller mode. A clear example of the old boy network at its finest.

Last edited 9 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Lonnie

Remember money talks and bull shit walks

Kaiser Wilhelm

Bullsh*t is by far one of the most useful of tools employed in the acquisition of money. Just look at Mike “Have I got a deal for you” Mezack; he’s made millions off bullsh*t.

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Last edited 2 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm