More than 100 lots from a collection billed as "one of the most remarkable achievements in numismatics" will be among the top attractions in Heritage’s May 4 CSNS US Coins Signature® Auction April 30-May 4.
The Bruce S. Sherman Collection, Part II includes 109 lots in the second installment of the collection of Bruce Sherman, Chairman and principal owner of Major League Baseball’s Miami Marlins. Part I of his collection was offered in Heritage’s FUN US Coins Signature® Auction in January.
"The same attributes that have helped him succeed in business – passion, deep knowledge and understanding, and a discerning eye – have helped Bruce Sherman build this extraordinary collection," says Greg Rohan, President of Heritage Auctions. "He started collecting as a hobby, but as his passion for numismatics grew, so did his collection, until it became world-class."
Among the top items from Sherman’s collection is an 1803 Proof Draped Bust Dollar or Novodel, PR66 PCGS that is tied for the finest among just four known survivors. Collectors today know proof silver dollars from 1801-03 as "novodels," which are among the rarest and most valuable issues in the U.S. federal coinage series. Coin dealer Robert L. Astrich purchased it over the counter from an undisclosed source in 1991. Astrich died in 2009 and, if he knew anything more about the source of this remarkable coin, he took the knowledge to his grave. This specimen has only been offered in two previous auctions, most recently at Heritage’s January 2013 FUN Signature Auction.
Another highlight from the Sherman collection is a 1792 Copper Disme, Judd-11, MS64 Red and Brown PCGS. CAC that is the finest by a wide margin of just three known examples of an outstanding rarity in the U.S. pattern series. The Mint experimented with reeded and plain edges on the copper dismes of this year, and the plain edge pieces are considerably scarcer. This coin possesses an unbeatable combination of absolute rarity, highest available technical quality, outstanding eye appeal and intense historic interest.
None of the nine examples traced is certified with a higher numeric grade than the 1838-O Reeded Edge Half Dollar, GR-1, PR64BM PCGS in this auction. The 1838-O Reeded Edge half dollar ranks among the most famous of all American coinage issues, comparable in value and rarity to issues like the 1894-S dime and the 1870-S silver dollar. PCGS CoinFacts estimates a surviving population of just 10, from a microscopic original mintage of no more than 20. PCGS and NGC have combined to certify just 12 between them, including an unknown number of crossovers and resubmissions; Heritage has located just nine examples still extant, one of which is housed in the National Numismatic Collection at the Smithsonian Institution.
An 1835 HM-5, JD-1 Half Eagle, PR67+ Deep Cameo PCGS. CAC is the finest of just three known examples. Few proof Classic Head half eagles are known, and of those, the example from the Sherman collection that is offered in this auction is believed to be finest, regardless of date. Of the 20 on Heritage’s roster, five are museum pieces, including one in the British Museum and four in the Smithsonian.
Another featured collection in the auction is the Pelican Bay Collection, Part I, which boasts the finest assortment of Seated Liberty quarters and half dollars to come through Heritage in the last decade.
Included among the collections highlights is an 1870-CC Seated Quarter AU50 PCGS Briggs 1-Athat is the sixth-finest known example of this coveted first-year rarity from the Carson City Mint.
Other highlights from the collection include, but are not limited to:
- The fifth-finest 1871-CC Seated Quarter AU53 PCGS. Briggs 1-A, Flynn-RPD-001
1871-CC Seated Quarter, AU53 PCGS - An 1855-S Arrows Quarter, MS64 PCGS. CAC
1855-S Arrows Quarter, MS64 PCGS CAC - An 1839 No Drapery Half Dollar, MS64 PCGS. CAC
1839 No Drapery Half Dollar, MS64 PCGS CAC - An 1864 Quarter Dollar, MS66 PCGS. CAC. Briggs 1-A
1864 Quarter Dollar, MS66 PCGS CAC
Many other impressive lots stand among the top draws in the auction. Among the most significant is a 649.15-ounce Justh & Hunter Gold Ingot from The Marcello and Luciano Collection, which is the second-largest ingot from the S.S. Central Americaever brought to auction. At 218 mm (nearly 8.6 inches) long, this is the eighth-largest gold ingot by any assayer recovered from the S.S. Central America and one of only 13 in the Colossal Size weight class (500.01 ounces and heavier). It is the sixth-largest Justh & Hunter ingot known.
An 1834 BD-1 Capped Bust Quarter Eagle, MS61 PCGS is the fourth-finest known example. Walter Breen once wrote that most, or perhaps all, known 1834 Capped Bust quarter eagles originated as proof strikes. The example in the National Numismatic Collection at the Smithsonian Institution originated with Adam Eckfeldt and is likely a proof, while another example from the Harry W. Bass, Jr. Core Collection is certified as a proof.
From The Texas Republic Ranch Collection comes a rare high-end 1794 B-1, BB-1 Silver Dollar, XF40, PCGS. CAC that is the Gainsborough specimen of America’s first silver dollar. It is believed that 140-150 surviving examples remain in all grades, and the present piece is finer than the majority.
An 1852/1 Humbert Twenty Dollar, MS63 PCGS. K-9, High R-5 is tied for the second-finest certified example. After the Assay Office began issuing fifty dollar ingots in 1851, the contract didn’t allow for production of smaller denomination gold coins, which were in high demand in the regional economy. Moffat & Co. requested permission to issue coins in five, ten and twenty dollar denominations in 1851, and after repeated appeals, permission to strike ten and twenty dollar coins was received in February 1852. A small mintage of 7,500 coins was produced in a single day. The majority of the 1852/1 twenty dollar pieces were melted for recoinage. The offered example is a spectacular Select specimen, tied with one other at PCGS for the second-finest certified.
An 1879 Judd-1635 Flowing Hair Gold Stella, PR65+ PCGS is making just its second known auction appearance. The 1879 Flowing Hair stella is one of the most unusual coins in the U.S. gold series, and a rarity that has been coveted by generations of collectors. It is technically a pattern, produced and given to members of Congress as a proposed international trade coin, and its four dollar denomination is also unique in United States coinage. Prior to its last auction appearance, in 2015, this coin was held in private hands for at least six decades.
Images and information about all lots in the auction can be found at HA.com/1383.
About Heritage Auctions
Heritage Auctions is the largest fine art and collectibles auction house founded in the United States, and the world’s largest collectibles auctioneer. Heritage maintains offices in New York, Dallas, Beverly Hills, Chicago, Palm Beach, London, Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, Munich, Hong Kong and Tokyo.
Heritage also enjoys the highest Online traffic and dollar volume of any auction house on earth (source: SimilarWeb and Hiscox Report). The Internet’s most popular auction-house website, HA.com, has more than 1,750,000 registered bidder-members and searchable free archives of more than 6,000,000 past auction records with prices realized, descriptions and enlargeable photos. Reproduction rights routinely granted to media for photo credit.
I have always loved the Seated Liberty design. I have a few nice specimens of these in my collection. I wish the mint would press some of the ‘classics’ every once in a while instead of putting out all their new age products. I know…wishful thinking!
Craig, it would be nice to see some of these classics in their original metal type. Some readers may be unaware, however the U.S. Mint has been re-doing classics in gold, since 2009 and 2016(Centennial link below), in addition to 2024. $20 St Gaudens, gold Mercury dime, Standing Liberty quarter and Walking Liberty Half, as well as Flowing Hair dollars in gold. PS The problem with the original metal the is that this takes an act of Congress or they have to be done as silver medals. We know how Congress acts, so I won’t go there… LOL
https://www.usmint.gov/learn/coins-and-medals/collectible-coins/centennial-gold-coins
And always liked the Bachelor President Spouse golds, including the only Seated Liberty gold! Unfortunately, no body @UsM nor Congress has any cents, or sense
CaliSkier,
I’ve collected all of the coins you’ve mentioned in Au, and while I do enjoy them, I wished they could get their act together and press them in the original metal composition. Maybe they could press them using palladium, which looks very similar to silver?
Astoundingly, dumbfounded by the collection above and other lots in the above upcoming auction Mike Unser links at the beginning of his article! Thank you Mike Unser for the article and link. I went in to check the water and take a peek at the 649.15 oz, 875 fine Justh & Hunter Gold Ingot and almost got trapped under the waves with the history of this piece alone, recovered from the S.S. Central America! Any coin collector or historian will struggle to not get sucked in for hours if you start looking at the individual lots, coins and history listed… Read more »
The ultimate Rabbit hole
That 1909 s VDB cent looks awfully appealing. What do you think it’ll end up selling for…$10k plus?
Alright, back to the subject at hand. Many of these Heritage coins are truly beautiful. Here’s the question: How do Heritage auctions compare to Stack’s Bowers (and other auction houses, for the matter)? Is Heritage more “prestigious”? Is one better for buyers or sellers? What’s the insider poop when comparing places to buy and sell coins?
I would say, “asking for a friend”. But, it’s really all me and my rampant curiousity.
Okay Cali, Rick and company, here’s your chance to crawl out of the abyss. Time for some coin and auctioneering chatter.
P.S. – I’m participating in a couple of GreatCollections auctions. How do they fit into the numismatic biz?
Good luck Reb and hopefully you’re able to out last the die-hards you may be competing against! Would you like to share what you’re chasing after? Denomination, high dollar, low dollar, doesn’t matter, just would be neat to know what coin or coins you may find interesting or what you’re looking to add to your collection. Thanks!
1854-S Gold Dollar (first coin of SF Minit) & the 1936-S Columbia Sesqui half dollar (second of three-coin set).
If you outbid me, Cali, I swear I’m coming after you!
Cali,
just do it, lol! Please, Please, Please!! 😉
REB,
sorry but ya gotta strike while the irons HOT !!!!! 😉
Couldn’t help myself, I probably should have just “shut up”!!! Lol!
And I Hope you know I’m JJ (Just Joking)!!!! 😉
I’ve been working tonight. My wife had one job – check the progress of the auction. She “forgot”. I lost. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!
REB
Oh no! Oh well, there will be others that become available. Sorry you missed out. ;(
Sam-I-Am said on 4/21/25: “Thanks, Cali! Maybe we can meet up at the upcoming show you found in NC!” That would be fun and a good time for sure Sam! The show I’d previously mentioned is the “Raleigh Money Expo” June 27-29 in Raleigh at the Exposition Center, NC State Fairgrounds, 4285 Trinity Rd Raleigh, NC 27607. There are a couple smaller shows prior to this, however I’m thinking this show will have more attendees and booths to look through? I’d love to support smaller shows, however I’ve only actually gone to one show previously. That one was a great… Read more »
I’d love to do the coin show … BUT … weekends are terrible for me until the Fall. I’m a free man in Paris from December to late February. That’s why I was able to luxuriously enjoy the Charlotte show earlier this year. I wish these shows were during the week but then no one else would be able to attend. C’est la vie.
Well, with the folks (2 in particular) who have been participating on this forum whom have it seems “left the room”, I may start back participating again! One of “those” two folks who left has been gone for a bit and now his side kick has left too! Hate to see you go………thank God!! It was hard enough just reading this blog let alone participate in it. If you softly mention something that’s political, I can easily ignore it but when it’s constant, like beating a dead horse and it’s very political, bashing, bashing and more bashing, that’s when I… Read more »
AKBob,
I would not give up on silver. The G:S ratio has again gotten out of hand and, as with most things, ultimately return to the mean. If I could not afford to buy silver for cash and had some gold, I’d be tempted to sell some gold to buy silver. It’ll probably never return to 15:1, but even 70-80:1 would reap a nice return.
DaveSWFL No worries Dave! I still think that Silver is going to have its day along with ALL the Silver Stackers that have stuck to it. I have always loved Silver and continue to love it. I just love gold a little more. Now that spot gold is so high, I’m really loving my gold now even more. As I said earlier, I sold a lot of silver to buy gold. I have no regrets. Once I finish purchasing the handful of gold coins I want, I’ll start stacking Silver again most likely. I’ll be 71 in a couple months,… Read more »
Agree AK, the premium the mint adds on puts the prices way to high which pushes many out of purchasing additional gold coins. It’s just priorities. Save up and resign yourself to just one coin you can afford. 2021 was an awful year for me as the mint did the switch over from type 1 to 2. I bought the type 2 gold. Should have bought the bronco. At the time all I could afford was one of the mints gold offering that year. heck, based on recent searches, a 2021 four coin type 1 gold proof set would have… Read more »
I too bought the 2021 AGE ‘new design’ coins (I bought the 4 coin set for $5055) which at the time I thought was foolish on my part. But little did I expect to see $3300/ounce Au in 2025, although with the escalating ND we have it should’ve been easily predicted. Anyway, I’m hearing folks already talking about Au at $3400 and $3500 so it turns out those 2021’s weren’t such a bad buy after all. Be happy with what you have.
Good point Craig. I guess my thought was I would have done better had I bought the Bronco or the type 1 set when you can only choose one item. However, just purchasing any gold was a good idea in 2021. I did buy the Liberty tree the following year as I liked the reverse eagle on it much more than the bronco reverse eagle. Keep on stacking…
ECG, Are those Bronco Au coins selling for close to $10k? I see where you were coming from in your original post..LoL. I liked the design of that coin, but I’m more attracted to one’s with the classic designs on the obverse. I wonder why someone would pay $10k for one however..I certainly wouldn’t! But as I’ve said before, coins really look their best in Au. Cheers
10k?!?!? Yowsa! It was a unique design, but $10,000? Oh my!
You guys are fairly close with the $10k figure. Here’s some completed sales from the GC site for that coin(below).
If you scroll down, it appears that the coin has doubled in price when comparing the price from 2 years ago. It’s a winner coin.
https://www.greatcollections.com/search.php?fromyear=&toyear=2025&grade_range_1=1&grade_range_2=70&ungraded=1&fromprice=&toprice=&mode=product&sort=02&series=0&from_ns=1&q=2021-W+Gold+%24100+American+Liberty+High+Relief+&enddate%5B%5D=2025-04-27&enddate%5B%5D=2025-05-04&enddate%5B%5D=2025-05-11&listing_type=4&frombid=0&tobid=500
Rick,
That 2021-W $100 American Liberty (Bronco) High Relief has really been off to the races this year. The retail prices for the coin has just exploded since the beginning of the year, as evidenced by the PCGS Price Guide prices:
Jan 1, 2025: PR-70 = $4,100 & PR-69 = $3,500
Feb 3, 2025: PR-70 = $8,750 & PR-69 = $7,500
Furthermore, APMEX is currently selling the ungraded coin in OGP for $11,000 and graded in PR-70 for $13,000. Mind blowing prices, but as REB mentioned, it was a really unique and popular design.
Craig, just last week a 2021 (Cowboy) W $100 PR70 PCGS FDOI (First Day of Issue) Flag Label sold on the Bay for $12,500!!! I purchased the Cowboy too! Mine is still in its OGP, I purchased it off of the Bay for $4400!!! I thot at the time that was too much but I had noticed this particular Au coin was going up in value all of a sudden. I bought it primarily because I started collecting the Gold American Liberty Series. When the Mint released it, I didn’t care for it but it really grew on me. Now,… Read more »
AKBob, Congratulations on buying that Bronco coin. I had absolutely no idea it would be selling at these lofty prices just a few years after it was offered by the mint. To me, that’s what makes coin collecting fun as you never really know if one of your purchases will ‘take off’ in price. I’m glad a few on this site were smarter than me with regard to this one. I couldn’t agree more with you about the mints premiums fees, they appear to make purchases a risky bet. I’m thinking by saving on some coin purchases this year, perhaps… Read more »
ECG & Craig, I did the opposite of you guys on the 2021 Proof 1 oz Gold. I purchased the Type 1. The only reason I did was because of Mr Cag! He said to collect the Proof 1 oz and 1/10th oz Type 1, so that’s exactly what I did. I can’t take credit for it but I’m happy I went with the Type 1 now too. I also backed the truck up on the 1/10th oz Type 1 as well! They seem to for some unknown reason to me to have gone up in value more than the… Read more »
I bought both types sets. Slave to the collection, you know. That was certainly a wallet-busting time for the old finances.
REB,
Oh my! That was a wallet buster!! Now tho, it has really paid off as far as an investment. I can see you when you hit that “Purchase Now “ button, is this worth it, lol! Even the Type 2 was a good purchase, it may not be quite as valuable but it’s definitely gone up in value very nicely! I’m so envious of your Proof Collection! Your dedication is unmatched! My oh My!! I hope you’re able to continue your collection. Congratulations My Friend!! 😉
Well, as always, Good Luck ALL!!!
Thanks & kudos to you, ya ol’ gold bug!
REB,
You’ve had some really ‘wallet-busting’ times lately as well! But compared to the value of your collection, it’s probably just a pittance. Cheers
No doubt. This year has a plethora of big-ticket items (if their release dates hold). A whopping SEVEN gold coin orders and a palladium proof. Throw in all the military ASEs and it’s a busy year. Now, if we can just avoid a repeat of that flowing hair lady ….
REB,
That’s the one (Flowing Hair privy coin) I was thinking about..Lol! But even that one’s worth the price. I’m not prone to being envious, but a collection like yours would bring me close. Cheers Mr. Goldfinger
Flowing Hair just bringing it up is like sand in your underwear
Lol.
AKBob, Early in 2021 when the Mint announced its plans to release the 2021 Type 1 and Type 2 Proof AGEs, I noticed that the mintage/product limits for the Type 1 proofs were the lowest mintage figures for the series to date. I figured the Mint did not want to produce a large number of Type 1 AGE proof coins because they preferred to issue more of the Type 2 AGEs latter that year. The lower mintage of Type 1 coins compelled me to purchase the Type 1 set over the Type 2 set, thinking they would have a higher… Read more »
Rich,
At least I got one set of the 2 Set Au 1/10oz.coins from 2021. If I remember correctly they sold out in about 5 minutes. The good times! Cheers
Congrats on the 2 coin gold set from 2021. I got shut out in that one just like the flowing hair gold. But I did get lucky with the 2019 s reverse proof. So it’s not all bad. I don’t understand the demand for the bronco gold. It’s not low mintage, they are easily acquired. Scratching my head on that one. At $12k or so, I would rather get a classic rare coin from Carson City or Charlotte. I see that someone on eBay is asking for $20k for the 2022 gold liberty high relief because there is an outline… Read more »
East coast Guru, perhaps those 2021 W American Liberty $100 “Bronco” coins, are in the strong hands of actual collectors and the remaining inventory is in the hands of the many profiteering dealers? There were approximately just 12,500(12,471) of these coins available which isn’t necessarily a “high” mintage per se? PCGS has graded roughly 1,200 examples and NGC, another 2,729. Of the numbers slabbed the vast majority or 90%, received the much sought after PF70 grade. So over 31% have been slabbed. I noticed, just 14 examples listed for sale on the “Bay”, with all being slabbed except for one… Read more »
ECG, Man you have outstanding taste in coinage as the CC’s in Au or Ag are some of my most coveted coins. I also love the civil war era New Orleans minted Seated Liberty coins. It’s a shame they couldn’t start those mints up for a really low mintage of silver coins. I’d pay a hefty premium for those coins. I’d say you were the winner with the 2019 s RP Ag dollar! That one is definitely a keeper. One of many that I got shut out on. It’ll be interesting to see if those bronco coins maintain their current… Read more »
I passed on the Bronco, although the design was great hard then to pay $2,800 i$h for an Oz. I was wrong….
Best mint buy last 20y the. Buffalo gold fractionals and set…so kool
gold Buffalo nickel!
I absolutely love my fractional Au Buffaloes! I would buy them every year if the mint decided to press them, even with their inflated premium fees. My only regret with those fractional sets is I only bought one of each. But who knew they’d be a one year only deal.
Best of luck Reb on those two auctions you’re seeking! A green bean and a good bean I presume? I know pictures can be deceiving, however that 1854 S looks mint state(MS) in my eyes. Price is getting up there on that one. However I did see that a true MS would run almost $5,000! I don’t know anything about these, however I can deduce these are rare,‘highly sought after, low mintage or something of the like? After all, quite scant amount of gold all things considered. That would be cool to own some “old gold” coinage though I must… Read more »
My hair is not yet on fire for any old coin. I’m willing to let the coin come to me. I prefer silver acquisitions to be clean (toning/tarnish-free). I’m more flexible with gold. I like eye appeal and “character.” For example, my 1838-C half eagle has multiple counterstrikes of the letter “L” on the coin. It graded the dreaded “details”. But the coin looks nice and the story of the counterstrikes was interesting – an early owner marked his ownership on the coin. The coin also has a broken die strike on the reverse. It’s almost as if that issue… Read more »
REB,
Good luck with the auction tonight. I consider you to be one of the top coin collectors(if not the top) that I’ve ever interacted with, and there has been many, many that I have spoken with regarding their collections.
So thanks for sharing your interests. Keep us updated!
I’ll be there tonight with my eyes on some Classic $1 Silver, and Modern half dollar or two. Here’s a half Dollar(below) that I’m watching. Not to buy, but for the rare, entertaining occasion that a Top-Pop Rarity hits the market. GC is my favorite Hammer site…
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1799123/1952-Franklin-Half-Dollar-PCGS-Proof-67-DCAM
Here is another coin that I’m watching below.
Again, for entertainment purposes only when it comes to Top-Pop rarities hitting the Market.
I’m not into 5C pieces, but that one is gorgeous imo. Look up the cert # on that one, ⇊ whoa…
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1799124/1935-D-Buffalo-Nickel-PCGS-MS-67-CAC-Green-Toned
Pretty … and with toning I actually like.
Thanks for the kind words, Rick. And to think it all started with a Lincoln cent Whitman holder. I still kick myself for letting my wife put it in a yard sale many years ago. D’oh!
Lovin’ the proof Franklin. What was the mintage on that beauty? I could check but I’ve got to fly. It is the weekend, you know.
You caught the Coin Bug, and that’s ok. It’s a satisfying hobby and always evolving.
That Franklin is going to go to a serious Registry enthusiast I’d guess…
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/51648827
I gotta go change my oil before the auction tonight, going on a road trip to Austin, TX pronto….
Rick & Bronco gold enthusiasts,
Yowza!! Bronco more than doubles in a month? Are people really paying up for that kind of increase? Obviously you can ask whatever you want for a coin, but if people really are paying that price, WHAT CHANGED???
Dave, its not that the Bronco doubled in price in a month per se as much as it coincides with PCGS finally updating the price in February, 2025 that they had been quoting through January, 2025. However, those sale prices at APMEX are stunning, let’s see if they sell.
Craig said regarding US Mint Classic re-makes: “Maybe they could press them using palladium, which looks very similar to silver?” I like your thinking and that would be awesome in my opinion! I’m guessing they’d still need Congressional approval, unlike gold, which they can pretty much make whatever they want out of gold based on how existing Public Laws were written? Craig also said: “That 1909 s VDB cent looks awfully appealing. What do you think it’ll end up selling for…$10k plus?” Not sure which one you’re referring to, however the five I noticed within the auction relating to the… Read more »
Rick, AKBob, Cali, and Cag,
FYI
FYI
FYI – He’s at it again tonight.
Yeah I saw it E1, same thing with his 20 identical post’s that he managed to delete(your retirement photo that he defaced)yesterday. Blow it off Bro.
E 1, On a previous thread you mentioned you were retiring. Congratulations. Congratulations on waiting until full retirement age to get 100% of what you are entitled. I would recommend that you go to the Social Security website and create a “My Social Security Account” profile. Use “LOGIN.GOV” to access your account. Once an account is created, go to the bottom of the page and access “Review your full earnings record now”. Verify the amounts and do a screen shot or offload your earnings records. People are currently paying serious dollars to have those freely accessed earnings records certified. I… Read more »
Cag,
Thank You Cag. As always, your advise is greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
E 1
I waited to collect till i was at my full retirement age. I got the Medicare, etc. at 65. Since the they have recalculated my earrings and monthly has gone up about $220 as a result, without he COLA annual increases. Unfortunately, my sister paid in max for decades and dies at 66, making the social security a lot of $$$$$
I’ll likely end up like your sister. If I ever draw SSI, I’ll be surprised. However, my grandmother was on the other side of the ledger. The only job she had was teaching piano lessons. I’m not sure she ever paid any Social Security. She drew SSI until she was 94.
Lately, I’ve taken a look at a couple of old coins on eBay. Any coin buying experiences out there on the site that were good or bad? Any tips for buying and/or not getting swindled?
Most of my experience buying coins has been with the Mint, Stack’s Bowers, or live coin dealers. I’ve bought a couple of newer issues on the Bay. In each case, I had gotten shut out by the Mint (hello, FHG!).
Are there any special concerns with buying old coins on eBay? I’ll hang up and listen ….
REB, I recently bought some nice high end coins from David Lawrence. Great website and very good images that are clear. I prefer that way over eBay. I never feel I get a good or accurate view of the coin on eBay. Just my two cents.
Thanks for the lead. I’ll check into it.
Been buying there since 2006! Very good and some deals over the years. Coin Shows always a great way to shop and “buy”
good luck‼️
I’ve done both at the same time. I bought a clashed flying eagle from David Lawrence’s E-Bay store. It was from the Stack’s W 57th Collection. The coins I buy top out a a few hundred dollars with sub-$100 as the norm. Usually I stick with the slabbed coins so I can check if the TPG has a better picture.
REB,
Caveat emptor when dealing with eBay. You don’t want any counterfeit Au coins ending up in your collection. For me ‘Trust’ always has to be earned.
True.
Both DLRC and M Barr Coins are good companies. I have made multiple purchases from both. I have chatted with the owner of DLRC numerous times. He is usually at the Baltimore coin shows. He probably goes to the Raleigh show too. I haven’t been to Raleigh, but one of my friends goes occasionally. Both are good shows for picking up hard to find items if you’re in the mid Atlantic area. The owner of DLRC was also behind getting the coin and bullion tax exemption in Virginia. I supported his efforts a few years back when he got the… Read more »
Thanks for the information, sharks. You and Cali are making me want to play hooky to attend the Raleigh show. You mentioned Virginia. When and where are the good shows in the Old Dominion? Richmond? Norfolk? Northern Virginia? I’ve got family and friends there. Perhaps I could swing a familial and numismatic visit, a “two birds with one stone” kind of thing.
I would only buy slabbed coins, usually the big 3 w CAC now forming an apparent grading triad
Reb,
You need a quality scale to weigh and a guarantee from the seller that your coin is returnable.
I also take any more expensive coin to my LCS and have them check the metal content of said coin.
You can’t be too careful with eBay
Thanks for the information, Dave. The higher the price of the item, the more I fear eBay.
Yet another question – what is an ICB-Genuine? A coin I’m interested in is in that slab for a fair price but I don’t see a grade.
The Link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/135318755742?_skw=1854-S+dollar&itmmeta=01JSZ5FY7DPESZ8G03CRYY2TXA&hash=item1f81a0599e:g:wIEAAOSwYxNnGrN0&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1d5FpEnfABDmjwHSOuVR5YFdehYRCgdY6v1h4VLmGW%2FaRzl0QBoX0qDzEu7D7mVUt4Joq9NXseJ%2BOXAwweLzh6mf1GpQ7uHz60ChSj8HKKLRCfYgL28qRvD%2FGfmNpK8dbIazhjOzQ%2BUlUiDRefQdGvhSClFSvknBQFxAQ2Wp287HIHYSATCEII2Bf%2B8pf7OxKLdo3BAdB8sS8eZhZBXU0xRSJVSkvvyjvBZj4tqKSsp6ydZm748pX2tZdzRKn2KJP4%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_Ljv-XPZQ
What say you? Go for it or GET OUT OF THERE!
I would pass. The grade is that this is a genuine coin and not a forgery. But it could have been whizzed or doctored which makes it ungradeable other than it’s a real coin. It will be tough to sell.
Thanks, ECG. I was leaning that way but I knew I’d get better advice here than from my gut.
East Coast, here is the eBay response I got from mbarrcoins:
“This coin was only sent to ICG to authenticate. It looks like a nice AU coin in our opinion!”
PCGS would’ve said the same, except more like AU Details -Cleaned and/or Whizzed, like Guru said before, avoid!
Yes sir! The count is now 3-0 for avoiding. That’s you, ECG & me. Thanks for the input, Rick.
Thanks Cali for your commentary above; that needed to be done. The reason a lot of lurkers do not participate is due to the few who make personal attacks on others. I do not comment on/about the people, just the content. I try to write comments that will help others in the hobby. I can say from experience I have had unwarranted personal negative comments thrown at me and do not appreciate it. That is one reason I have limited my participation since way back in the MNB anonymous comment days for those who remember back to the 2007 time… Read more »
Here are the chat rules on the train watching site I occasionally visit: CHAT RULES: • Be polite and respectful • Please use English, we need a single language to be able to understand each other. If you’re not fluent, use a translator such as Google Translate: https://translate.goog… • Don’t post in ALL CAPS or use excessive emojis, letters or characters. • Don’t discuss politics, religion, race, sex, violence, disturbing details about train or vehicle accidents, or anything like that. We try to be mindful of any children who may be watching. The conversation here is (trains) Coins, and please… Read more »
I saw a film at the Sundance Film Festival that I think was call “Life in a Day” about the various people and 24 hours of their life. One segment involved a railway enthusiast quest to see the trains of all 7 Class 1 railroads in on day. It involved racing from one railway crossing to another with a certain element of panic due to schedules. I don’t know if there an equivalent in coin collecting.
Dealing with the failures of the mint website over the last 20 years might qualify for that same panic.
Will I get the coin or will I be shut out?… It can be a crap shoot with the mint website – haha.
Amen!
REB @1854-S $1 Gold,” I lost. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!” Dude, that was a nice coin, I looked it up, sorry for your loss, ouch. For the grade it is superb with minimal distractions, nice coin. There is something that can be said about a PCGS w/CAC coin — just me. Together they pack a powerful punch and you almost can’t lose. Stay with it, there will be more to come, be patient! There are two up for auction currently from what I saw on the PCGS site linked below(@current auctions-NGC chart). The NGC MS-61 at DLRC looks comparable to the GC coin. The… Read more »
That coin, the Obverse of the 1854-S Liberty $1 doesn’t have much to go on with regards to getting it properly positioned so that the Reverse will not look like a rotated die. In order to get everything lined up, the grader must place the star above the crown at exactly 12:00 up top to avoid the perception of a rotated Reverse die. Either the TPG guy put it in crooked, or it may have moved over time from show to show/shop to shop? There are ways to re adjust some slabbed coins with gentle table-tapping on one corner or… Read more »
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Rick, I appreciate your observation, explanation and pictures on that 1854 S $1 dollar AU50! I definitely thought or perceived a rotated die, absolutely without a doubt. After going back to the PCGS site, your pics, again back to the GC listing, mentally attempting over and over and over again to flip that coin in my mind, attempting to realign, to visualize placement or centering, I finally was able to relate with the misalignment or placement of the coin within the holder being off center. LOL I found your descriptor how to potentially realign somewhat enlightening as well and wonder… Read more »
Misalignments do happen! The TPG’s are under stress to hurry-up like a sweatshop, along with laziness, and lack of training & experience? There is ‘supposed’ to be one that grades the coin, then a 2nd guy comes in to verify the grade, then, a ‘finalizer’ if they disagree? Then, a slabber-guy is next. Then, a ‘verification’ takes place, ya-sure. The video is older ⇊, and I find it cringeworthy — too fast paced, gloveless, and coin in face, literally. It is what it is…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihLDv2Vc02k
Here’s an expensive coin that was crossed from PCGS(it was aligned), over to CACgrading(now no longer aligned).
CAC dropped the ball big time, thinking that the date should’ve been at 6:00, nope. I showed the problem to the buyer — not happy. I assured him that CAC would reset it at no charge if he did not want to ‘tap’ the coin into submission lol…
Faceplant.
Rick, Great catch! I can’t believe CAC actually did that to an extremely high end coin! It just tells me that CAC is as bad at making mistakes as PCGS and NGC. I’ve had my fill of the problems these grading companies have! They move too fast, not enough staff, not enough training, etc., the list can go on and on and on! These so called “top tier’ grading companies are just pushing thru coins to get them in and out as fast as they can! All of these so called great grading companies are just lining their pockets and… Read more »
AKBob, you said: “All of these so called great grading companies are just lining their pockets and NOT really taking the care and safety of the coin seriously!” There in lies part of the problem in my opinion. They are lining their(Owners and higher ups) pockets and perhaps, not paying enough down the food chain or to the underlings if you will, to retain, get or train good help that actually cares, has an interest in the hobby, in order to perform the services to the highest degree, for the volume of coins they possibly, are expected to handle, process,… Read more »
Rick thanks for an additional example of a non-centered coin. I’ll now always be checking a coins true center versus my perception of a rotated die. BTW, that sucks CACG wasn’t able to get you “squared” away on coin center or orientation.
I was showing a guy the issue with the alignment problem, and he showed it to the owner (all online).
I was the messenger only in this case, and I’m still alive!
It is a pretty Spartan obverse. No mint mark. No date. No initials. No words. Just a head and some stars. I’d never have the patience to tap a coin into place. Many a model plane from my youth wound up in pieces because I was, as Cali puts it, “frustrated or a bit overzealous”. Leave the realigning to the experts, thank you very much. Yeah, I hated losing that GC coin. One thing that getting shut out from time to time by the Mint has taught me is that the coin will always be available later somewhere else …… Read more »
I am surprised with the pullback is Gold that Silver can’t catch a bid.
The longer Gold:Silver stays around the current level (100:1) the better for long term Gold holders and the worse for long term Silver holders…
Exactly 8 years ago post:
“I will Short a 2017 “S” ASE PCGS PR70 for $239.00 that sold 04/28/17
In a few weeks or months I will Cover my Short and see whether I was correct OR not…”
Fast forward ~8 years…
The last 3 sold by auction on eBay:
04/27/2025 $111.33 with 14 bids for PCGS PR70 Deep Cameo
04/27/2025 $84.00 with 13 bids for PCGS PR70 DCAM-First Day Issue
04/28/2025 $100.00 with 16 bids for PCGS PR70 DCAM *First Strike-Lim.Ed.Pr.Set
On 04/28/2017 Silver closed @ $17.16..
On 04/28/2017 Gold closed @ $1,265.00
On 04/28/2017 Gold:Silver ratio was 74:1
Yep, initial excitement always wears off when given enough time. However, as I recall, didn’t the mint issue the 2017s ASE as a part of a 75,000 congratulations set on April 4 which drove the price up as it was initially a relatively a low mintage wonder with no household ordering limits. Sold out in minutes. Then on October 5 the mint included the same “S” ASE in the 50,000 Limited Edition silver proof set which cut the legs out from all those initial buyers of the 2017 s ASE congratulations set. Even with that history unique to 2017 s,… Read more »
ALL, I did a Post but afterwards I made a spelling correction (edit) and it said it has to be looked at before it can be posted. So I’m just going to retype it now instead of waiting for it to be ok’d. ALL, I don’t know if everyone here is aware of the Vaultbox Releases, they put in high end coins in mystery box’s and usually there’s three coins. This release tho there is only one coin. They sell “X” amount and if you purchase one, you might get lucky and get a very high end coin. You might… Read more »
Interesting find you have!! If you can, type in the NGC number in the comments so we can look at it on NGC. Not sure of next steps as I was not familiar with error labels being a thing.
ECG, Thanks for the reply AND question. The NGC Certification Number is 6355587-012. When you look at the coin, can you give me your take as far as does it look Proof or Mint State? You may want to go to Ebay and look at the 1890 Proofs for sale. It looks like a Proof to me. I have no idea which is more valuable, Proof or Mint State in this grade. I’m not interested in this coin either way as I don’t collect these. Also, take a guess at the Grade it might be. It’s a “clean” coin as… Read more »
Thanks for the ID numbers. How embarrassing for NGC. Tough to tell from my small iPhone picture what grade I would give, but a 64 or 65 is within the spectrum. MS values $400-800. At proof $400-500. Probably best to see what an error label is worth. If not much send it in for a re-grading. If it is a MS-65 Liberty nickel, you have made your money back.
AKBob, what actually might be a more important question, is what happened to the “1930 Standing Liberty Quarter NGC MS-65 FH” that is supposed to be in that slab? I ask, as one sold in February of 2025 for $720 at a Stack’s Bowers auction. Had that been the coin, versus label you received, you’d have almost made your money back on what you originally paid Vault Box for a chance at a “winner”??? Me,‘I’d be reaching out to Vault Box, returning the contents of my entire Vault Box seeking a complete return of my expenditure, with ALL shipping costs… Read more »
Cali, I’m going to disagree with you about everything you said. I don’t even care what happened to the other coin , lol!! It doesn’t matter, it’s not even part of the equation. This offering was for one coin so it doesn’t matter about other offerings offering 3 coins! That has nothing to do with this offering. This type of offering will make some folks winners and some losers, obviously many more losers than winners. Unfortunately, this time, I’m a loser. That’s the chance 8 took! Chances are you’ll get a loser but that’s part of the chance you take.… Read more »
NGC took it down, it’s not there.
Oh well, good luck!
PS: If someone has a Link for it, please send it, thanks
Rick,
I just looked it up and it’s there. It’s a nice looking coin and to me it certainly looks proof or proof-like. ECG said it best when he said ‘How embarrassing for NGC’. These ‘experts’ are supposed to have such magnificent eyes that they can see flaws us mere mortals never could, but can’t match the correct label with the coin being graded? Apparently, quality control isn’t a high priority at these grading companies.
Reb,
I agree with positive comments about David Lawrence site. – generally good stuff – I’ve never been disappointed with my purchases from them
JM Bullion has 90% “junk” silver U. S. Coins at 99cents per ounce over spot
DaveSWFL, I haven’t ran the numbers but I’m going to take an uneducated guess and say, this is just another trick!!! Almost every place that sells junk silver sells it at “X” amount times face value or something like that. So if they’re trying to sell it by the ounce, you’re probably either getting ripped off or it’s the same as face “x” $20. $20 seems to be the amount times face value. Some sell it at $22 times face too. Have you ran the numbers? I’d be interested but I’m not buying any junk silver so I’m not running… Read more »
AK Bob,
Gainesville coins has $1000 bag of silver for $3.01 over spot. Lower size bags and premium increases substantially. 99 cents over spot / oz is quite a good deal
Thanks for the heads up. Most of the time Golden Eagle coins has better prices on junk silver than other places. Regarding this sale, JM saves you $6.00 vs GE on $10 face.