Chinese “Invention” Coins Spotlight Heritage’s June 19-21 HKINF Auction

Vertical dollar and Singapore 10,000 among top attractions in June 18-21 World Paper Money event that includes notes from more than 60 countries

99

A gold Chinese coin celebrating one of the most significant inventions in the study of natural history could send shockwaves through Heritage’s HKINF World & Ancient Coins Platinum Session and Signature® Auction – Hong Kong June 19-21.

People's Republic gold Proof _Seismography_ 2000 Yuan (1 Kilo) 1992 PR68 Ultra Cameo NGC
People’s Republic gold Proof Seismography 2000 Yuan (1 Kilo) 1992 PR68 Ultra Cameo NGC

A People’s Republic gold Proof "Seismography" 2000 Yuan (1 Kilo) 1992 PR68 Ultra Cameo NGC, from the Shenyang Mint, is from the Scientific Inventions and Discoveries of Ancient China Series. The certificate indicates that it hails from a tiny mintage of just 10 pieces, although Chan suggests the mintage actually included 16; a record has been found of just one other example being offered at public auction, in 2003.

It was issued in recognition of the seismoscope, one of the earliest known instruments for detecting earthquakes.

"Attempts to accurately record seismic events go back centuries," says Cris Bierrenbach, Executive Vice President of International Numismatics at Heritage Auctions. "One of the earliest seismoscopes was invented in 132 AD by Zhang Heng, a Chinese philosopher, astronomer, mathematician, engineer and inventor who served in the imperial court of the Han dynasty. His device, the ‘earthquake weathervane,’ was remarkably sophisticated for the time, and was reported to have successfully detected an earthquake in 134 AD that occurred about 400 miles away in what is now the modern province of Gansu. But the original designs and more detailed descriptions of the seismoscope were lost over time, and no replicas have survived. His invention represents one of the earliest endeavors to create a scientific instrument for detecting earthquakes, and is rightfully celebrated on this beautiful and exceedingly rare coin."

Another low-mintage "Inventions and Discoveries" gold kilo that will find a new home when it is sold in this auction is a People’s Republic gold Proof "Compass" 2000 Yuan (1 Kilo) 1992 PR69 Ultra Cameo NGC that comes from a mintage of just 10. This beauty celebrates the invention of the compass during the Han Dynasty around the second century BC. Of the three examples certified by NGC at this top-of-the-population grade, the one offered here exhibits the highest technical quality.

People's Republic gold Proof _Compass_ 2000 Yuan (1 Kilo) 1992 PR69 Ultra Cameo NGC
People’s Republic gold Proof Compass 2000 Yuan (1 Kilo) 1992 PR69 Ultra Cameo NGC

From a mintage of just 20 comes a People’s Republic gold Proof "Completion of Lunar Cycle" 2000 Yuan (Kilo) 1992 PR69 Ultra Cameo NGC that was struck in commemoration of the completion of one full lunar cycle since the start of the Lunar Series, the popular collector’s program that began in 1981 with the "Year of the Rooster" issues. Of the 20 extant, only 11 have been certified, with the offered example tied for the highest grade available.

People's Republic gold Proof _Completion of Lunar Cycle_ 2000 Yuan (Kilo) 1992 PR69 Ultra Cameo NGC
People’s Republic gold Proof Completion of Lunar Cycle 2000 Yuan (Kilo) 1992 PR69 Ultra Cameo NGC

Another highlight in the auction is a Republic Tsao Kun gold Dollar ND (1923) MS62 NGC, a Dollar-size gold issue requisitioned by the President of the Republic of China, Tsao Kun, upon the promulgation of the new Constitution by the Peking Senate in 1923. It portrays the warlord and politician in military uniform, and represents the first time Heritage has brought this Chinese rarity to auction in nearly a decade.

Republic Tsao Kun gold Dollar ND (1923) MS62 NGC
Republic Tsao Kun gold Dollar ND (1923) MS62 NGC

A Republic Sun Yat-sen Specimen Pattern 1/2 Dollar (50 Cents) Year 25 (1936) SP63 PCGS is one of the rarities from the Sun Yat-sen series, and part of a group of Patterns proposed with a smaller diameter and slightly altered Junk design from previous Sun Yat-sen issues. Whether these issues were struck at the San Francisco Mint or the Central Mint of Shanghai (Kann purporting the latter) has been the subject of some debate. What is beyond question, however, is the fact that the specimen offered in this auction carries the second-highest grade at PCGS, with none graded higher at NGC.

Republic Sun Yat-sen Specimen Pattern 1_2 Dollar (50 Cents) Year 25 (1936) SP63 PCGS
Republic Sun Yat-sen Specimen Pattern 1/2 Dollar (50 Cents) Year 25 (1936) SP63 PCGS

Among the half dozen lots in the auction from the Coenen Collection is a Qing Dynasty. temp. Qianlong gold Boat-Shaped Sycee of 10 Taels ND (c. 1750) Certified MS61 by Gong Bo Grading. It is an iconic gold ingot, seen primarily among those salvaged from the Dutch East Indiaman cargo vessel Geldermalsen by Captain Michael Hatcher in 1985, standing out through its unique shape and design that suggest its use for trade with the Dutch. Wrecked in the South China Sea on January 18, 1752, the Geldermalsen carried 147 gold bars and ingots along with a significant cargo of porcelain.

Qing Dynasty. temp. Qianlong gold Boat-Shaped Sycee of 10 Taels ND (c. 1750)
Qing Dynasty. temp. Qianlong gold Boat-Shaped Sycee of 10 Taels ND (c. 1750)

The Ten Kingdoms – Kingdom of Chu. Supreme Commander Ma Yin (907-951) Tiance Prefecture Treasure Cash ND (911) Certified 85 by Gong Bo Grading is one of 46 lots in the auction from the W&L Collection and a stunning example of this rare heavy cash emission minted to commemorate Ma Yin’s rank of Supreme Commander of Tiance, Hunan given by Emperor Ta Zu of the Liang Dynasty. Rarely does this type make appearance at public auction and when it does, it never is of such high quality.

The Ten Kingdoms - Kingdom of Chu. Supreme Commander Ma Yin (907-951) Tiance Prefecture Treasure Cash ND (911)
The Ten Kingdoms – Kingdom of Chu. Supreme Commander Ma Yin (907-951) Tiance Prefecture Treasure Cash ND (911)

Other top lots in the auction include, but are not limited to:

Images and information about all lots in the World & Ancient Coins auction can be found at HA.com/3117.

World Paper Money

An extraordinary array of banknotes from more than 60 countries around the globe will end up in new collections after they cross the block in Heritage’s HKINF World Paper Money Signature® Auction – Hong Kong June 18-21.

"This is an extraordinary auction, one that boasts a wide array of countries and types," says Dustin Johnston, Vice President of Numismatics at Heritage Auctions. "The variety in this auction is secondary to the freshness of the offerings. We are excited to present so many notes for the first time at auction … and every lot is offered without reserve."

Among the highlights is a China Hupeh Government Mint 1 Dollar = 7 Mace 2 Candareens 1899 Pick S2135 S/M#H175-20 PMG Choice Extremely Fine 45 that is popular with collectors as it is grand in both physical size and aesthetic appeal. Part of the lone issue by the Hupeh Government Mint, this note originally could be exchanged for a crown-sized silver dollar, leading to most being redeemed long ago. This example has a vibrance that belies its age, and is the second-finest, and one of the few original pieces, of just 36 examples graded in the PMG Population Report.

Hupeh Vertical Dollar
Hupeh Vertical Dollar

A beautiful and exotic China Deutsch-Asiatische Bank, Peking 100 Dollars 1.7.1914 Pick S277r S/M#T101-24 Remainder PMG Choice Uncirculated 64 is so rare — at the time of cataloging, PMG has graded just 13 of these Peking Remainders — that they are coveted by collectors worldwide. Of the notes issued by the German-Asian Bank in China and its colony in Kiau Chau from 1907 until the end of World War I, two series, denominated in Dollars and Taels, were issued featuring either the 1907 or 1914 date. Notes from this issuer shared a common design across all branch cities: Shanghai, Peking, Tsingtau, Hankow and Tientsin. This denomination is only known in Remainder and possibly Specimen form.

China Deutsch-Asiatische Bank, Peking 100 Dollars 1.7.1914 Pick S277r S_M#T101-24 Remainder PMG Choice Uncirculated 64
China Deutsch-Asiatische Bank, Peking 100 Dollars 1.7.1914 Pick S277r S/M#T101-24 Remainder PMG Choice Uncirculated 64

A China People’s Bank of China 500 Yuan 1949 Pick 843a S/M#C282-55 PMG Superb Gem Unc 67 EPQ is an extraordinary issue that is tied for the highest graded in the PMG Population Report. The front features a steam shovel vignette, while the reverse showcases guilloche designs.

China People's Bank of China 500 Yuan 1949 Pick 843a S_M#C282-55 PMG Superb Gem Unc 67 EPQ
China People’s Bank of China 500 Yuan 1949 Pick 843a S/M#C282-55 PMG Superb Gem Unc 67 EPQ

A Singapore Board of Commissioners of Currency 10,000 Dollars ND (1973) Pick 8A PMG Extremely Fine 40 is a rare high-denomination note from the Flower Series, one of fewer than 100 graded in the PMG Population Report. Although still accepted as legal tender, the Monetary Authority of Singapore stopped producing this denomination in 2014. This coveted note rarely makes it to the auction block, and is being offered at Heritage for the first time.

Singapore Board of Commissioners of Currency 10,000 Dollars ND (1973) Pick 8A PMG Extremely Fine 40
Singapore Board of Commissioners of Currency 10,000 Dollars ND (1973) Pick 8A PMG Extremely Fine 40

A Malaya and British Borneo Board of Commissioners of Currency 10,000 Dollars ND (1953) Pick 7cts Color Trial Specimen PMG Choice About Unc 58 EPQ is a magnificent example with the desired EPQ status of the highest-denomination note featuring the portrait of Queen Elizabeth II. This note generally was not a note that went into circulation; instead, it was used to settle large transactions within the banking industry, meaning that only Specimen and Color Trials, like the offered example, are known to exist.

Malaya and British Borneo Board of Commissioners of Currency 10,000 Dollars ND (1953) Pick 7cts Color Trial Specimen PMG Choice About Unc 58 EPQ
Malaya and British Borneo Board of Commissioners of Currency 10,000 Dollars ND (1953) Pick 7cts Color Trial Specimen PMG Choice About Unc 58 EPQ

A Hong Kong Government of Hong Kong 1 Dollar on 5 Yuan 1941 Pick 317 KNB6 PMG Gem Uncirculated 66 EPQ is the single finest-graded Hong Kong $1 overprint from World War II in the PMG Population Report. Merging top quality and unquestioned rarity, this note was issued in World War II-era Hong Kong and somehow escaped circulation, allowing it to retain complete originality and pristine paper after more than six decades.

Hong Kong Government of Hong Kong 1 Dollar on 5 Yuan 1941 Pick 317 KNB6 PMG Gem Uncirculated 66 EPQ
Hong Kong Government of Hong Kong 1 Dollar on 5 Yuan 1941 Pick 317 KNB6 PMG Gem Uncirculated 66 EPQ

An India Government of India, Calcutta 2 Rupees, 8 Annas ND (1917) Pick 2 Jhunjhunwalla-Razack 3.3.1A-G PMG Choice Uncirculated 64 features an outstanding grade on a note with an uncommon denomination. The 2 Rupees 8 Annas is a seldom-seen middle denomination in the government’s series of notes; this type may have been issued to bridge the gap between small denominations, or to give the public a new note to use as silver was being hoarded during the first World War. The note was issued across major cities, which are identified by the prefix letter; this Calcutta issue is original and saved in Uncirculated, helping it become one of the most famous of all Indian paper notes.

India Government of India, Calcutta 2 Rupees, 8 Annas ND (1917) Pick 2 Jhunjhunwalla-Razack 3.3.1A-G PMG Choice Uncirculated 64
India Government of India, Calcutta 2 Rupees, 8 Annas ND (1917) Pick 2 Jhunjhunwalla-Razack 3.3.1A-G PMG Choice Uncirculated 64

Other top highlights include, but are not limited to:

Images and information about all lots in the World Paper Money auction can be found at HA.com/4051.

About Heritage Auctions

Heritage Auctions is the largest fine art and collectibles auction house founded in the United States, and the world’s largest collectibles auctioneer. Heritage maintains offices in New York, Dallas, Beverly Hills, Chicago, Palm Beach, London, Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, Hong Kong and Tokyo.

Heritage also enjoys the highest Online traffic and dollar volume of any auction house on earth (source: SimilarWeb and Hiscox Report). The Internet’s most popular auction-house website, HA.com, has more than 1,750,000 registered bidder-members and searchable free archives of more than 6,000,000 past auction records with prices realized, descriptions and enlargeable photos. Reproduction rights routinely granted to media for photo credit.

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Kaiser Wilhelm

Dear Heritage Auctions,
Throw in two or three Terra Cotta Warriors as a bit of an added incentive and guarantee shipment via chartered private jet and I’ll be more than happy to buy the whole lot as a package deal right now and save you all the fuss and bother of the auction.

terracotta-warriors
Rick

Those look pretty cool, the Warriors. They must be worth something given your comment?(I don’t care to google it right now)…
Because I tell you what. Placing World views aside for a minute. Those coins and collectables above look amazing too imo..

Rick

OMG are they carved into the Earth?

Kaiser Wilhelm

Rick,
The Terra Cotta Army consists of eight thousand individually created soldiers of varying rank and stature (height) plus hundreds of similarly constructed horses and chariots. It was built along with other similar adjoining complexes to protect and defend an emperor after his death and has now survived in its underground haven well over two thousand years.

51714-Terracota-Army
Major D

Pretty incredible, and all life-size.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Who knows how long it took the hundreds of thousands of workers to assemble this massive underground installation!

Kaiser Wilhelm

Those ancient Chinese Terra Cotta Warriors are a one of a kind archeological find. If they aren’t being considered as such already, they certainly ought to be ranked among the all-time artistic wonders of the world.
As for the brilliant assortment of coins and paper money displayed above, one would have to look far and wide to find a collection to match that. And to think that all of those clearly rare beauties are in fact for sale!

Rick

All of it, amazing!

Kaiser Wilhelm

When you think about it, this emperor certainly could have done much worse things with the full extent of his time, power and riches.

East Coast Guru

Tried posting with a picture and nothing showed up. Will try again. I saw these warriors up close with my dad years ago.
Truly amazing to see in person. Just like the Great Wall.

Last edited 11 days ago by East Coast Guru
Kaiser Wilhelm

How very fortunate you were, East Coast Guru, to have not only seen those ancient wonders in person but to have been able to share that singular experience with your dad. That’s akin to the feeling I got when I visited the 1964 New York World’s Fair with my own dad; literally a once in a life time experience!

OIP
E 1

Darn it! I dropped my vibrator in the toilet again!

Dropped_It-Copy
REB

Wow, E1, you’re really having a difficult time getting ads tailored to your interests. Either that or you have a pretty interesting search history online.

E 1

REB, I am not too sure what the ad selection malfunction is. But, I am not the only one. A number of these ads and their graphics don’t correlate with the main thrust of this blog. If they are tailored to my search history, which I am sure they are not, they are annoying at best. There should be ads for upcoming coin shows, travel arrangements, coin collecting supplies, coin inspection equipment, on-line auctions, beer, banks, credit cards, any of the TPGs, and any of the big time major coin and bullion retailers. I am sure the hit rate on… Read more »

E 1

Also, Ads for Home Video Systems, Home Alarm Systems, and Floor Safes would probably garner more click attention too. Think like a coin collector.

REB

I agree completely but Major D probably nailed what’s happening here with his response.

Major D

E 1, I’m afraid we all probably fit the demographic that the ads are targeting– old. In their algorithms, coin collectors = old.

Last edited 11 days ago by Major D
Kaiser Wilhelm

I think you may just have exposed the wizard behind the curtain, Major D. While many internet ads are by design intended to at least somewhat coincide with the thrust of the material of the site on which they are displayed, there might quite possibly be an even greater number of them that are the result of the kind of ancillary targeting suggested by Major D. After all, the very open-ended category of “old” allows for a much greater range of commercial diversity than does the by nature far more narrow subject of “coins”.

Kaiser Wilhelm

By the way, he’s rather adept at keeping his cards close to the vest!

wizrd-of-oz-pay-no-attention
Rick

That happened to my wife years ago…
No not a toy! But her wedding ring no joke. She brushed it off of the counter and plop! Way in the back too.
Guess who had to retrieve it? Yep. It was ‘clean’ water–but still weird…
Now we just keep the lid closed when not in use, a learned habit.
Would you go after your Proof Barber in ‘dirty’ toilet water?..Yeah me too!
You’ll need to explain as to why it was near the toilet though…..

Last edited 12 days ago by Rick
Kaiser Wilhelm

I think if there were a poll taken or a scientific study done we would learn that second only to car keys, wedding rings are the most frequently misplaced objects.

REB

“Guess who had to retrieve it? Yep. It was ‘clean’ water–but still weird…”

My wife said: “This must have been written by a man. With four kids, I’ve picked all kinds of stuff out of the toilet. It’s no big deal.”

I have to admit, she’s done FAR more toilet-picking than I have. But your point is well taken – what is anything precious or collectible doing anywhere near a toilet?

Rick

Yes, my wife as well has done more than her share of “dirty” work regarding the kids, dog, and toilets! And FWIW, I do all of the “dirty” work on the cars, lawn, and the occasional toilet replacement job!…
Something precious near a toilet? Well, something considered precious or collectable might very well be some sort of “toy” near the potty? Or perhaps since one didn’t have any reading material handy for “the long haul” maybe a nice, quiet coin inspection would work for the time being?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Kaiser Wilhelm

Rick,
It just dawned on me that all this time I’ve been reading exerpts from this week’s issue of “The Bathroom Numismatist’s Digest” as summarized from articles that originally appeared in the most recent annual blockbuster edition of “Fine Coins And Toilets Magazine”.

soilets-sol-toilets
Rick

✔️I’ll take the Digest!

Kaiser Wilhelm

An excellent choice considering what a good value for the money it is, Rick. Speaking of which, while it’s always advisable to subscribe prior to the summer rush, by enrolling now you will find yourself among the fortunate few to also receive entirely free of charge a limited release of the classic “Definitive Guide to the Coinage of Atlantis”. Congratulations!

Kaiser Wilhelm

“…what is anything precious or collectible doing anywhere near a toilet?”

In that respect, REB, I would submit there are plenty of drains, holes, spaces, slots, nooks, crevices and crannies in likely any dwelling around that are capable of swallowing valuable objects just as easily as can any toilet.

Kaiser Wilhelm

Holy cow, did those precious metal prices ever take a bad fall today. One never knows.

habbo-habbohotel
Major D

Kaiser, gold falls and takes silver with it. Blame it on a strong jobs report, inflation, the Fed, and China?
Gold Dips Below $2,300 as Jobs Dash Fed Bets, China Buying Pause (yahoo.com)

Kaiser Wilhelm

The Bullish stock market, a Chinese sell-off and the other factors you listed, Major D, is enough to take the wind out of any Precious Metals Sales (Sails!).

boat
DAVESWFL

You guys actually really read the ads????

Coin talk – got my first 2024 nickel yesterday at the Mikosukee Reservation rest area on Alligator Alley! A total surprise.

.PMs pummeled BUT we shall see if $29 silver can become new support. It is a key support area. However, when the PTB decide to punish PM investors, they frequently get their way using leveraged instruments.

VinnieC

DaveSWFL does the Mikosukee tribal police still run speed traps on Alligator Alley or was that US-41 or maybe both. I think I only drove either of them twice (round trip) when I lived in St. Pete. I was told to watch for speed traps which seem to be a profit center for the tribe. I always thought Miami and the Everglades was so far. I drove out to Canaveral a lot more. As for coin talk I always sort of surprised that I didn’t see any Denver Mint coins in Florida and Philadelphia. I used to trade statehood quarters… Read more »

East Coast Guru

Saw this ad. I doubt she is the one available. Probably AI generated.

IMG_2798
Kaiser Wilhelm

Interested in some catfishing, anyone?

6fnyai
HarryB

Interesting that PMs fell on the last trading day before the 50 year Petro Dollar agreement between the US and Saudi Arabia expires……I doubt Saudi Arabia will renew……time to see if the BRICS nations will make their move now……I do hope CAG fastens his seat belt…

Rick

And hello to you HarryB!
You & Cag could have some welcomed banter right about now.
If we could just “drill” it into him to stop by now and again. Ruffle some feathers I’d say!

Kaiser Wilhelm

Poor silver appears to be the perpetual punching bag of the precious metals world.

BB1iwe5E
Last edited 10 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Major D

I received my subscription ASE-W Uncirculated today. I’m very happy with the coin, and the clamshell.

OIP
Rick

Congratulations!
It’ just me, but I’ve always preferred the UNC and/or Burnished/SP finishes. They are more forgiving quality wise, as well as lower Mintages. Don’t get me wrong, Proofs are outstanding, but sometimes have an elevated chance of a blemish, spot, or scratch revealing itself. I collected the(some) Burnished Silver & Gold Eagles, as well as the UNC Spouses & Commems in the early to late 2000’s, but in recent years have moved on to different stuff…
Great choice of a collectable Silver coin Major D.

Last edited 11 days ago by Rick
Rick

(some)Spouse & UNC/Burnished coins from 2010 to 2020 that is…

Last edited 11 days ago by Rick
DAVESWFL

Vinnie,
FHP do all patrols on Alligator Alley. Never have I seen a reservation officer on the alley. Do see them at the rest area, but I’ve never seen them with a car pulled over.
Warning to all – never call the AAA while on Alligator Alley – they will not service on that (private) toll road! You have to call for a FHP Road Ranger.

VinnieC

DaveSWFL,
Upon further reflection I think I was thinking of the US-41 section of Tamiami Trial. They have the speed limit low in several places that would make a great speed trap. Now that you mention AAA, I guess the same would apply to SR-528 what I used to know as the Beeline Expressway to the Space Coast.

Rick

VinnieC, While I’ve got you here I wanted to let you know, Tom too… Late last year? when I showed you guys a higher quality Morgan that I had purchased.. Tom had asked me “Have you checked it for VAM’s?” I had to figure out what he was talking about(lol)! So I did some digging around, along with your tip to visit VAMWorld 2.0. I had found that my Morgan(it was an 1880-S)had no VAM’s, no problem, but a great way to enhance the collecting of these coins, and the Peace $1 coins. Fast forward to last night and several… Read more »

Rick

VinnieC, Tom, E1, Craig, really all Morgan & Coin enthusiasts in general; What I’ve found in the casual browsing of my Morgan set is an unattributed variety known as the “1888-P VAM-11 Doubled Ear” It’s #63 on the top 100 Morgan VAM list. Below is a photo from my phone, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. Other than displaying what it looks like and it most certainly doesn’t have the variety attribution that it could? Luckily in it’s most recent trip to PCGS, the Gold Shield service was selected and that comes with complimentary TruView photography. Link to my… Read more »

1888-MORGAN-MS66-NEW-VAM-FIND-1
Last edited 10 days ago by Rick
Rick

So yes, the 1888-P has a high Mintage, with a high rate of VAM Dies going on as well. The 1888-P-VAM 11 has a lot of verified coins as well. So it’s easy enough to obtain one… But in higher grades, the better things get for collectability factors/populations. At PCGS the regular strike 1888-P has 201 coins in MS66+ @$1550. It has 80 coins graded higher. And the 1888-P VAM-11 Doubled Ear in MS66+ has only 3 in the population report with none graded higher. It’s valuation sits at $1700. While only $150 of a higher valuation with the variety… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

Vam, bam, thank you ma’am. These fine details are above my brain grade.

VinnieC

Rick, Essentially you are a cherrypicker. In your case it is a slabbed coin. Congratulations! Not everybody cares about VAMs. I think there is an extra fee to attribute it when slabbing. Either that or like you said they missed it. The only thing I’ve found in my unattributed slabbed coins is a minor RPM for a Jefferson wartime nickel. The wartime nickels seem to have a lot of re-punched mintmarks. The other side of the coin (so to speak) is when a variety is attributed but is is not the most desired one. I think NGC and PCGS will… Read more »

Rick

Not at all, no soapbox! I like the way you talk! The variety bug that you have is inspirational!
I never knew about the 1888-P VAM-11 before yesterday. This one is very cool I think, with the ear and those spikes going on. What’s better is finding something unexpectedly!
Gotta go get some “chores” done,
Later

VinnieC

I was typing my reply as you were typing your update. I think the spikes that you mention are die clashing. That would make it a VAM-11A. Congratulations!

Rick

Thanks VinnieC!

Last edited 10 days ago by Rick
Kaiser Wilhelm

Rick and VinnieC,
While I don’t always join some of the conversations on the occasions that specific fine points or particular niceties of certain coins are discussed, as in your exchange of comments immediately above, it doesn’t in any way mean that I’m not interested in these somewhat more esoteric, unusual or unique details. I can’t even imagine myself tiring of learning about coins.

VinnieC

Kaiser Wilhelm,
I was always impressed with error coins seeing them at Fred Weinberg’s booth at coin shows. Around 2006 I read a COINage article about the 1995 double die Lincoln cent and learned what a variety was and how much more common they were than an error coin and yet still rare. COINage also mentioned that there were many more found in recent years and as a result the prices of the 1995 DDO penny started dropping. Ever since then I’ve been interested in DDOs, DDRs, RPMs, RPDs, OMM and VAMs (the whole alphabet soup).

Kaiser Wilhelm

VinnieC,
Here we are with you once more taking the time and effort to explain and illustrate how much one can look forward to when it comes to learning ever more about the types and varieties of coinage. Not to mention, your demonstrating with examples how to broaden one’s numismatic enjoyment via the use of this expansion of numismatic knowledge to widen the scope of one’s own coin collection.

Last edited 8 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
AKBob

I read an article that some SOB stole a valuable Gold Nugget at the Coin Show in California, the Longbeach Coin Expo, from the 1849 Gold Rush in California! They have a fingerprint of the thief. He reached in and took it right out of a display cabinet! Security cameras caught it on video I guess!! The article also stated that this Nugget is worth a lot more than melt plus it’s one of the few remaining large nuggets that still exist that hasn’t been melted down from the California Gold Rush! The Dealer has no insurance either !! I… Read more »

VinnieC

Bob Campbell the owner of the gold nugget is a local Salt Lake coin dealer.

Rick

Thanks AKBob! I just spent a good bit of time giving you a reply with a photo and a link, and poof–spam/approval BS. I’m going to try again but break it up. Here’s the short version. Basically I said thanks for your good vibes and good will. I’m having some fun too! Out of my lucky PM grades were 3 “pocket change” coins that I threw in there for some fun & experimentation with my untrained grading eye!.. 3 1959-D 1C coins from roll searching 10 years ago! I have 50 more similar to these in the photo(all ’59-D). The… Read more »

3-1959-D-1C
Rick

The MS65RD I thought had the best strike, very crisp imo, you can see die polish lines in the photo–click. Imagine if that “hole” in the letter ‘E’ in UNITED were not there? An MS66?
Take a look–Unless it’s spam? Wish my link luck!
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/49347808
Look at the Minage on these, wow!

Rick

The “better” grade MS66RD here doesn’t show polish lines, is “smoother” I guess? The obverse is not that appealing to me? A weird texture/color/woody look? The reverse looks better. And man is that strike off center E1? Tough call on this higher graded coin. No + add on for this coin!?
Every time I look at a 1C now, I always look down to see the “V” lol..I gotta get a life!
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/49347810

Major D

Rick, I’ve been looking for those “V”s to no avail. In the course of looking through mixed date bank rolls I always separate out the 2023s to examine closer later but it’s proved to be very elusive. I believe E 1 is dead-on about the rarity. I also have a box of Loomis rolls that look to be all-2023 (all ends are 2023), but I’ve yet to open any of them– thinking they’re likely worth money on eBay by those looking for “V”s. Are the known “V”s Philly and Denver, or just one mint?

E 1

Major,

To date, No 2023 “D” mint “Extra V”s have been authenticated by any of the three TPGs.

Cheers

E 1

Major, Also, regarding that Loomis box of 100 rolls. I would look at the end of each roll for any showing Extra Vs. Jackpot rolls have been reporting 4 Extra Vs per roll on average. That is an 0.08 probability or 8% chance that an Extra V would show on the end of a jackpot roll. Based upon the AQL Sampling Plan defined by the American Society for Quality (ASQ), a random physical inspection of 10% is equivalent to a physical inspection of 99%. If you break open and physically inspect 10 randomly selected rolls out of 100 and don’t… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

Rick,
You just alluded to the fact the ongoing hunt for the elusive “V” might be taking control of your (coin collecting, and other?) life. Remember the 1983 science fiction series by the name of “V” about the rat-swallowing reptile aliens who arrived on earth disguised as humans? Is it possible they’re now using those “extra V” cents to once again declare the presence and/or supremacy of their species? Do you think Ventris is in cahoots with or could be colluding with them?

oTvzdwDbH6UajxEY1Deg6oeR2WA
Rick

Kaiser, The hunt has wound down somewhat for me with the 1C “V”, as I now have more than enough. And yes, I do look down for that darn “V” instinctively!?.. I will grab a perceived bargain, such as all 3 of my ANACS recently. They’re in the Chop Shop now, and no one knows their final fate except for the Grand “V” Master in the crossover room… As far as 1983 I don’t recall that show as I was very busy, but that logo above looks familiar now that I take a second look! In ’83 I was focused… Read more »

VAN-HALEN-1
Last edited 9 days ago by Rick
Kaiser Wilhelm

I guess we can all relax now, Rick, knowing that while the “V”s have it, it certainly doesn’t sound like they have you; what a relief!
By the by, that was a rather intriguing list of your own personal “V”s that you just listed above. I believe I can safely assume you weren’t referring to the Blessed “V”irgin Mary, “I could have had a “V”-Eight” or the city of (“V”an) Halen in Belgium.

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Rick

✔️!

Major D

Thanks for sharing, Rick! You’ve given me something to aspire to someday (grading of best searcher coins). Makes me wonder what kind of grades are in my Mint cellos, too. Perhaps it is time to bust some out? Speaking of which, I’ve heard that you don’t want to keep in the cello because it will cause long term damage. But if they’ve been in there for 61 years (in the case of a 1963 Mint uncirculated set) what are the chances that something would change now?

Last edited 9 days ago by Major D
Rick

Major D, The satisfaction of a gem find in circulation, or a gem in a Mint set from the 60’s(well, any) is the real deal. That ’65-’67 SMS comes to mind as well. I don’t do it enough, the habit/hobby comes and goes for me. I was thrilled to find my little gem ’59-D’s and other 1C keepers.. Yourself and others here that search, or check their change? Keep it going, you never really know… Mint set break-ups are big business for the Mint, Sellers, & buyers alike. It’s no wonder they are cheaply packaged. The same can be said… Read more »

Kaiser Wilhelm

Cool, Rick. Tang was the beverage of choice for the Astronauts!

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Kaiser Wilhelm

AKBob, My theory is that the reason all of these monster legends exist is because people simply find it far too difficult to be able to accept the fact that their own countrymen, their next door neighbors or even their very own family members could be capable of perpetrating the very horrors and atrocities that these so-called “creatures” are therefore accused of the act of committing. That being said, I’m still not exactly sure why so many people have so much difficulty making this more than obvious connection considering the literally tons of evidence of such horrifically grotesque mass liqudations… Read more »

Major D

This is intriguing, The Royal Mint just released a new commemorative in silver and gold, designed by John M. Mercanti (of US Mint fame) called The Lion and The Eagle. Ltd Ed mintage limits very low: 1-oz Gold 600; 2-oz gold 50, 1-kg silver 125; 5-oz silver 1,000; 2-oz silver 2,500; 1-oz silver 8,500. I wonder how fast these will sell and whether they will be snagged by dealers?

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HarryB

what is the best way to purchase Numismatic issues from the Royal Mint?

Major D

HarryB, I’ve bought directly from the Royal Mint in the past as well as through dealers like JM Bullion. I’ve found you have to shop to see which is a better price because postage is higher though the Royal Mint.

CaliSkier

Current shipping costs HarryB, as noted by VinnieC, direct from the Royal Mint is $12.50£, which equates to approx. $15.93USD.(currently) The exchange rate $1.2744 USD to $1£. What amazes me about the Royal Mint are the number of US coins, including bullion American Gold Eagles(2024) and pre 33 gold. I can’t speak to the comparison pricing, as I’ve not been in the Au market for some time now. $2.50 Indians, St Gaudens, Morgan’s, Peace, Franklins, Kennedy’s(1964), Liberty Au, and more. BTW VinnieC, it’s pricey, however the 1oz Proof Britannia and Liberty can be picked up in a 3 coin set… Read more »

VinnieC

CaliSkier, I did see the 3 coin set. I also did notice that the Royal Mint is seems to be a coin dealer now offering a lot of historical coins (didn’t notice the amount of US coins until you mentioned it). I ended up picking a slabbed L&B or B&L PF70 that seem closer to PF69 prices. Secondary market prices seem more varied on British coins because sale volume are more irregular. On one hand you have those dealers pricing for long inventory times, then you have those that seem to want to dump their inventory. Some items just disappear… Read more »

Last edited 8 days ago by VinnieC
Major D

VinnieC, as for commenting on this site you can go as many levels deep as you’d like! My experience in buying past Royal Mint products like 10-oz silver BU Tudor Beasts is that some US dealers beat the Royal Mint prices after factoring in exchange rate, tax and shipping. Other times, like with the 2023 2-coin silver Proof/RP Tudor Beasts Bull of Clarence set, directly from the Royal Mint was the better price. So, I always shop around no matter what it is. The current exchange rate GPD/USD is definitely a negative for me. You can get the 1-oz silver… Read more »

VinnieC

HarryB,
I’ve check my Royal Mint invoices and shipping seems to be a flat £12.50. I usually try to buy several RM coins at once to average out the shipping cost.

Major D,
I was watching the 1 oz. Britannia & Liberty silver proof £2 from the Royal Mint. I wasn’t thrill about the 1 oz. silver version from the US mint being a medal. I was waiting for more stuff to buy so I could average the shipping cost. It didn’t sell out instantaneously, but while I was waiting it did sell out.

Rick

I don’t know, maybe it’s just me? Is PCGS trying to create some drama, or some twisted way of providing me with ways to deal with “stressors” more effectively? Or do they have some questionable people in charge of our coins?. Probably not, but gee wizz… Email today; “Hello Rick, I am following up with you for the encapsulating team is requesting to clarify your request to have the Obverse facing forward(label side) on the holder. They said it does not make sense to them. They are asking if you meant shield side up for the extra V coins. Please… Read more »

MY-2023-EXTRA-V-1C-MS67RD-1
CaliSkier

I am so sorry Rick! However, thanks for the full on ROFLMAO! Somehow, for some reason I am not too surprised? I’m almost stressed from what you have described, beyond perfectly clear, recently, re: getting your 2023 Extra V’s slabbed with your desired orientation. WOW, is all I can say and this sounds like another example of a “Twilight Zone” episode. Whew, LOL, again sorry for laughing at your expense and what you said about: “ Is PCGS trying to create some drama, or some twisted way of providing me with ways to deal with “stressors” more effectively?” I often… Read more »

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AKBob

Rick, I totally feel your pain! I’ve dealt with Isidro myself and he’s messed up a few of my submissions! I’ll tell you this, if PCGS wasn’t the Premier Grading Service, I would NOT do anymore business with them! They made about a dozen mistakes on my five submissions alone this year! I’m so miffed at them, I’m dreading getting a couple of “THEIR” mistakes fixed!! It’s like the “right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing”!!! I’ve had many phone conversations with PCGS and I’ve been nothing less than disappointed and miffed at them! The people that… Read more »

East Coast Guru

At first I thought that PCGS couldn’t handle more than one coin submission at a time, but then reading Rick’s note it seems they can’t do one coin at a time either. PCGS were all in force at the Long Beach show and scores of people were standing in line to use them. I wonder if they received poor service as well.

Major D

AKBob, I definitely feel your pain + frustration, though I’ve never dealt with PCGS as I haven’t had anything graded (yet). Whether it’s the Mint or the graders, I’m reminded of the song Radio, Radio by Elvis Costello and these lyrics:

I wanna bite the hand that feeds me
I wanna bite that hand so badly
I wanna make them wish they’d never seen me

Kaiser Wilhelm

I feel very badly for you, AKBob, that you have found yourself not only spending all that hard-earned money but on top of that having to put all your time and effort into trying to get everything that went so totally and unnecessarily wrong fixed somehow. And still you continue to experience PCGS mistakes practically without letup; what’s wrong with those people?

Rick

Well Cali, AK, all, I’m going to see if I can look at the bright side to this nerve racking endeavor for a minute. Before I do, let me say this and it’s just my take here.. The two big dog TPG’s are simply overwhelmed with certifying coins for the masses. I think they are understaffed and undertrained for what the customers expect, and occasionally it shows. I would venture to say that they have never been busier, ever. Just look at the multitude of offerings from the USM alone–A joke. The upgrade/investment market for certified coins is huge also.… Read more »

Last edited 8 days ago by Rick
Kaiser Wilhelm

Rick,
Why in heaven’s name would having the Obverse of the Lincoln Cent, the side that this is all about because it is the one with the extra V on it, facing forward on the label side of the slab not make any sense to the PCGS encapsulators? Am I missing something here or have those people somehow taken leave of their senses? This is too much malarkey to have to deal with; I don’t know how you and AKBob can stand it!

Last edited 8 days ago by Kaiser Wilhelm
Rick

We are gluttons for punishment, and will never learn. We just pick up a few tips here and there, all in the name of sharing valuable, and not so valuable info with our fellow Numi friends!

Kaiser Wilhelm

I wanna bite the hand that feeds me
I wanna bite that hand so badly
I wanna make them wish they’d never seen me
— Elvis Costello lyrics courtesy of Major D —

Rick,
Those words hit home in more ways than one. I’m all too clear on the concept.

VinnieC

Rick, I can sort of rationalized why PCGS wants to put the shield facing front. The stupid PCGS says “Shield” on it and it seems like they are trying to conform to the label. In the case of the Extra V it says “Shield Extra V” so it is sort of a split decision (IMHO logic would favor the Extra V). I noticed the seller that I think is Dave Santiago on E-Bay has the shield facing front of the PCGS slab of the Extra-V he is currently trying to sell. I just bought an NGC slabbed £2 Proof Britannia… Read more »

Rick

VinnieC, The shield thing is getting ridiculous. Front/back–back/front? Write shield on the label, or not!? PCGS started with the word shield on their label and it is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen, agreed. It has to have been a marketing decision to differentiate themselves from the others. CAC is now writing shield on their labels for a 1C coin too. Neither NGC, nor ANACS writes shield on their labels. ANACS, as far as I know–always puts Lincoln up front. I think CAC too, but not positive. Why doesn’t my newly graded ’59-D’s have “Memorial” on the label? Or “Wheat”… Read more »

Major D

Rick, I was always told that you buy the coin, and not the packaging- so does it really matter?

Rick

No, it really doesn’t in the end, the coin matters most, and that is what I adhere to first and foremost, despite my packaging preferences that are on full display here. But when the packaging is presented in ways that are so twisted and obtuse nowadays, a line must be drawn, and very soon imo.

Rick

VinnieC. Here is a coin to rationalize for a sec? The Prestigious 2019-W Lincoln Unc Cent with an elusive MS-70RD grade. It’s probably worth $1000. Maybe $2000? To not only see Lincoln, the person that the coin is dedicated to, as well as the first ever -W Mint Mark on a 1C coin, I must flip the holder to its backside to view the goods. The whole purpose of the(arguable)rare coin is the obverse. Why humiliate the coin in this manner? A 1909-S VDB, with the S on the obverse, and the VDB on the reverse still maintains its Obverse… Read more »

2019-W-LINCOLN-CENT
Major D

Rick, you get no argument from me as I feel the date/obverse should always be the primary side of every coin, as that is the most important element. One of the first things I learned (with Buffalo nickels) is that if the date has been rubbed off or is no longer legible then you don’t have a coin– you have a token.

Rick

That reminds me of a time when I found a strange Buffalo nickel long ago. I could see the D mint mark on the reverse and the coin was in really good shape, but it only had 3 legs? So I tossed it into a Goldfish pond, and wished it goodwill forever!
(⊙ˍ⊙)

Major D

I hope you got a lifetime of good karma for that! Oh, po’ ol’ three-legger

VinnieC

Rick, I didn’t say I agreed PCGS having shield facing forward. I just acknowledge they have a different line of thinking. Not only do you have to flip the slab backwards but also upside down 🙂 I went and found my bargain basement $25 NGC MS-69RD 2019-W. They had the obverse forward. It would have been stupid of NGC to have the shield facing forward considering the Lincoln Label. 🙂 I think I basically got the TPG grading and slabbing for free. I think the dealer I bought it from was hoping to get some MS70s in the grading process… Read more »

Rick

VinnyC,
I think I was agreeing with you on shield being written on the label as being stupid? Anyway that’s a good coin you have and it sounds like it was a good deal, it was done correct imo. NGC has the 2019-W backwards also. They also put the 2017-S out back, you have to flip it as well to see the -S. I understand Lyndall Bass and all, but her design is the Reverse, and that is secondary, literally…
CAC has it correct, and shield is written in small font at least?
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1599402/2019-W-Lincoln-Cent-Shield-CACG-MS-69-RD

2017-S-LINCOLN-CENT-NGC-BACKWARDS-OBV
Last edited 6 days ago by Rick
VinnieC

On a separate note I when search through my slabs for the 2019-W 1c I also ran a across my 2019-W and 2020-W ATB quarters that were much maligned in MNB. It looks like PCGS tends to have the reverse side forward on the ATB quarter. That would make the ATB design and date face forward and the “W” face backwards in the slabbed. I have not really develop an opinion on those. NGC has my new Britannia & Liberty Coin with the Britannia & Liberty reverse facing forward and I prefer that coin facing that way. Recall that on… Read more »

Rick

I don’t know about the ATB presented like that, Obverse & W backwards? I guess I’m some sort of purist when it comes to Obv vs Rev and where I think it belongs in a presentation package…
I had to look up the 2008 20 pence mule. Pretty cool item, and thanks for talking about it!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/305575060470
I never thought about using a mirror to show both sides of a coin!

Rick

I put the 20 pence mule on my watchlist, and now they’ve sent an offer!  “GBP 134.99 from the seller”
So if interested? Watch it and get the $ break!