When only the best will do …
It’s a catchphrase that has been used in a multitude of ways, perhaps none more appropriately than when applied to a magnificent 1899 Double Eagle PR67 Ultra Cameo NGC. CAC. JD-1, R.5 that will be among the top attractions in Heritage Auctions’ Long Beach Expo US Coins Signature® Auction September 14-17.
The offered coin stands atop a list of rarefied numismatic prizes: PCGS Coinfacts lists just 32 surviving examples in all grades, with only 10 in Gem condition or finer; in fact, only one Cameo is graded in PR66. The coin offered here is one of three that NGC has graded PR67 Ultra Cameo; none carries a higher NGC grade.
"This auction features coins of exceptional quality throughout, and this Liberty Head double eagle is as appealing as any," says Todd Imhof, Executive Vice President at Heritage Auctions. "Very few were created in the first place — the recorded original mintage was just 84 — and the number of surviving examples is significantly lower, around 30. This coin carries the highest grade of any survivor, including the one that is in the Smithsonian Institution. It’s the kind of trophy-level coin that can become an immediate centerpiece and demand a spotlight of its own in any collection."
This 1899 double eagle is one of 11 lots in the auction’s Premier Session from the Mercury Rising Collection, from which other highlights include, but are not limited to:
- A 1870 Type Two Double Eagle PR65 Ultra Cameo NGC. CAC. JD-1, Low R.7 — one of five or six survivors confirmed in private hands from an original mintage of just 35 examples struck, CAC-approved
- An 1867 Half Eagle, PR65 PCGS — the former Garrett-Bass example
Among other highlights in the auction is an 1854-D Three Dollar Gold, AU58 NGC, an infamous coin from a mintage of just 1,120, and the only three dollar issue struck at the Dahlonega mint. Demand understandably climbs for examples graded above XF, making a high-end AU coin like this one, which comes from one of the key dates in the series, a must-have prize for serious collectors. Only 13 have been graded between NGC and PCGS in Mint State, and resubmissions mean there might even be some duplication within that paltry total.
A 1796 Capped Bust Right Eagle, AU50 NGC is more elusive than its 1795 counterpart, which has five known die varieties. This beauty is one of what John Dannreuther estimates is a surviving population of 125-175 examples in all grades.
Another collection featured in the auction is the Samuel Winans Collection, a compilation focused on Liberty Head double eagles, including several with challenging dates and mint-marks. The 73 lots from the collection, all in collector-friendly grades, include:
- An 1861-S Paquet Double Eagle, AU55 PCGS — created by an assistant Mint engraver who never became a chief engraver, but was referred to upon his death as "one of the most skilled engravers and die-sinkers employed by the government." It is one of just eight graded in 55, with only nine carrying a higher grade.
- An 1862 Double Eagle MS63+ NGC. CAC is an appealing example of a coin that served little domestic commercial purpose but were more actively shipped abroad for international trade and payments. Early numismatic disinterest resulted in an issue that is scarce today. The offered example is not believed to have been offered at auction before, and is one of just three graded in 63, with only one finer.
- An 1871-CC Double Eagle, AU55 NGC is an example — one of just 55 — of the second-rarest Carson City Twenty. A Mint gold specialist noted that many 1871-CC double eagles have been cleaned, increasing demand for a minimally abraded example like the example offered in this auction, an exceptional coin for the AU grade range that shows very little wear.
- The Stuard Collection of Morgan Dollars includes 30 Premier Session lots among its 86 lots that features an exceptional selection of silver dollar dates and grades. The top attractions in the collection include, but are not limited to:
- An 1889-CC Morgan MS64 NGC is from a mintage that either went almost entirely into circulation or was melted to support the Pittman Act, the 1918 legislation that led to the melting of more than 270 million silver dollars. Part of the reason for the low mintage, beyond the millions of San Francisco Mint dollars already stored — unwanted — in Treasury vaults, was that the Carson City Mint closed in in 1885 and did not reopen until 1889. This issue is virtually impossible to obtain at the Choice level, except for occasional offerings like the one offered here.
- An 1893-S Morgan Dollar, AU55 NGC is a beautiful example of the rarest Morgan Dollar in Mint State, thanks to its low mintage of 100,000 and considerable circulation.
- An exceptionally rare 1904-S Morgan Dollar, MS66 PCGS is fairly scarce in any Mint State grade — far more so at the Premium Gem level. PCGS reports only a single Prooflike coin this fine, and finer non-Prooflike pieces are exceedingly rare; the offered coin is one of 21 graded in 66 (three in 66+), with just two finer.
The James E. Blake Collection of U.S. Colonial Coins & Tokens is featured in a month-long Showcase auction (bidding ends Sept. 5) in addition to the 10 lots in this auction, in which highlights include:
Images and information about all lots in the auction can be found at HA.com/1365.
Heritage Auctions
Heritage Auctions is the largest fine art and collectibles auction house founded in the United States, and the world’s largest collectibles auctioneer. Heritage maintains offices in New York, Dallas, Beverly Hills, Chicago, Palm Beach, London, Paris, Geneva, Amsterdam, Brussels and Hong Kong.
Heritage also enjoys the highest Online traffic and dollar volume of any auction house on earth (source: SimilarWeb and Hiscox Report). The Internet’s most popular auction-house website, HA.com, has more than 1,750,000 registered bidder-members and searchable free archives of more than 6,000,000 past auction records with prices realized, descriptions and enlargeable photos. Reproduction rights routinely granted to media for photo credit.
Hello Everyone, Anyone visiting the site lately might have noticed a bit of a troll problem here. While I can keep giving them a taste of their own medicine indefinitely, I also do not want to go against the wishes of the majority here. I would like to ask for opinions of all the silent observers (if any are left) that are willing to comment as to whether they want CoinNews.net, RepublicanCoinNews.net, DemocratCoinNew.net or PartisanPoliticalCommentsCoinNews.net. The website address is not actually changing, for those of you that think I mean that literally. I can tell you right now, one choice… Read more »
All I can say is Wow! I still consider myself a visitor here on CoinNews and don’t know what the hell happened in the past couple of months, again, all I can muster is WOW! I used to enjoy the articles and Comments however after a few minutes of the APdE comment thread, I had to go to a new thread just to see if this non-coin banter continued? Talk about TROLL behaviors by more than a few? I know things must have gone over the top when I see Kaiser adding his 2-cents in? I’m going to try and… Read more »
CaliSkier and Jeff Legan,
I’m now on a negative comment starvation diet to stop churning out troll food courtesy of my own episodes of belligerence. I vote 100% for CoinNews.net.
Kaiser, don’t be so hard on yourself.
Major D,
Thank you for the very good in general and extremely beneficial to me advice. I tend to be much harder on myself than I ever am on others.
Kaiser,
I wholeheartedly agree! I too vote for Coin news.net.
I will try hard to drastically decrease my overall political comments, except typical ones about the Mint, BEP, Treasury Department & Congress on coinage/medals/paper money matters.
Mazel Tov!
NumisdudeTX
Seth,
You have always been one of the most stalwart supporters and defenders of what is best about this site, so your vote is especially important. A day without Seth is a day without coinshine. Alles Gute!
Kaiser,
Thanks greatly for the kind words Kaiser! You are a gentleman in my book. Afterall, we have so much in common with our coin hobby & experiences in Germany for sure.
Gruss Gott!
NumisdudeTX
Seth,
Thanks to you in return for such a welcome boost regarding my self-image; I’ve felt a bit like a totally dry version of Shakes the Clown of late. We certainly do have common interests and experiences, mein Freund; we collect coins, we lived in Germany, and we both collected coins while living in Germany.
Seth, as I was researching past Coin News articles looking at the initial prices for past AGE’s on release days, I saw your name in the comments. You are indeed a fixture on this site (I mean that in the best possible way, as in VIP)! It’s kind of funny that in looking back, one of the constants is that folks have always felt the Mint’s release pricing was too high. Reminds me of those old Randy Travis lyrics: Forever and ever amen As long as old men sit and talk about the weather As long as old women sit… Read more »
CaliSkier, in looking at your numbers comparing what the cost of the coin would be minus the premium, I think a better way of looking at it would be comparing the premiums (in each year the coin was offered) as a percent of the spot price. For instance, the 2023 AGE 1-oz Uncirculated has a premium of $851 (Mint list price of $2,770 minus today’s spot price of $1,919), so this is 44.3% x spot. When the 2021 AGE 1-oz Uncirculated was released on Oct 7, 2021, it had a premium of $865 (Mint list price of $2,620 minus spot… Read more »
Major D,
That is a very revealing and eye-opening observation. I would count that as more evidence that there is more than one way to look at coin prices.
I did a little more sleuthing, and here’s what I found:
2017 AGE Unc 1-oz—24.4% x spot (Initial pricing June 1, 2017 release was $1,575 minus $1,266/oz spot = $309 premium);
2018 AGE Unc 1-oz—27.8% x spot (Initial pricing July 12, 2018 release was $1,590 minus $1,244 spot/oz = $346 premium);
2019 AGE Unc 1-oz—22.5% x spot (Initial pricing June 13, 2019 release was $1,640 minus $1,339/oz spot = $301 premium);
2020 AGE Unc 1-oz—33.8% x spot (Initial pricing November 19, 2020 release was $2,490 minus $1,861/oz spot = $629 premium)
Major D, Those figures do tell the tale, don’t they? It appears that as the Mint retail price rises so apparently in many if not indeed most cases does the Mint’s premium; this goes a long way to explaining why the sales prices just keep on getting ever higher. I believe the consequent reality will be that only those with access to more than the average discretionary income will be able to afford the cost of precious metal items from the Mint. It could be that eventually the average coin enthusiast will be restricted to assembling collections consisting primarily of… Read more »
2020 numbers appear way off. I think that the Pringing Range Table would or should have reflected a maximum premium over spot of $340 vs $600($629)+, Major D?
CaliSkier, The Coin News article from Nov. 19, 2020 said the Mint’s list price was $2,490: 2020-W Uncirculated American Gold Eagle Release | CoinNews. In clicking the Matrix (Pricing Guide) link in the article, that looks right in that for the Ave Price per Oz range of $1,850.00 to $1,899.99 the AGE Unc is priced $2,490. So, it follows if the spot price was $1,861 on release day, November 19, the premium that day was $629 over spot (2,490 minus 1,861).
Ok, thanks Major D. I appreciate your patience. I found my error. I was using the 2019 Pricing Range table, not having found or seeing the price increase, using the Federal Register instead of a search for Coin News Articles. So after a bit of research as well as using the link you provided, I was able to find the other information I needed to clearly see what you were seeing and saying! LOL After knowing I’d been using the 2019 version and your link taking me to a(the) 2020 version of the Pricing Table, I found the article in… Read more »
CaliSkier and Major D,
You are both right on the money (pun absolutely intended) when you portray the Mint’s precious metal premiums as all having gone right through the roof. I’ve previously been given to saying that it won’t be long before the average collector wouldn’t be financially able to purchase any of the Mint’s precious metal coinage items. However, after examining your figures I can see that is not a future prospect at all; the Mint’s roadblock of precious metal coinage over-pricing has already arrived.
Kaiser Wilhelm, much of what you say often elicits additional perspective for which I’m grateful! It has and or is quite apparent to me the US Mint absolutely has zero concern for the “average collector” in this day and age IMHO. The change really began at the inception of the Bullion program in 1986. It seems like it used to be, get coins into consumers hands at a fair and reasonable price? Now it’s, as long as someone or anyone will buy at our price, let er’ rip! Get that money as long as they are buying and we absolutely… Read more »
CaliSkier,
Many thanks for your exceedingly kind words, my friend. By the way, whatever contributions I am able to make to this site I am more than certain I receive similar benefits back tenfold from people like yourself and all the other great participants involved in the many diverse, informative, and enlightening numismatic conversations that occur here.
Am I the only one that sees a 110% increase in the premium charged from 2019 to 2020? Let me see, what event occurred in that time period that might have played a part in this drastically explosive premium spike? Hmmm…I’m going to have to ponder this for awhile.
2020 was a rollercoaster for gold. Started the year at $1,520/oz, peaked at $2,061/oz on August 7, and ended the year at $1,891/oz but a lot of ups and downs, not a steady descent. Likely the Mint adjusted prices near the peak.
Those who bought gold bullion in mid-March 2020 at $1,450/oz won the goldstakes.
Major D,
Whoever was either smart or lucky enough to have bought their gold in March and sold it in August was afforded a 42% profit, and that really adds up when you’re in the thousands of ounces realm.
Well, not quite with short-term capital gains tax.
Major D,
I’ve often wondered how much less trouble government could get into if it didn’t have the ability to tax everything on earth.
Craig,
Answer to Question #1: I doubt it.
Answer to Question #2: A number of forces and circumstances.
Notice re observation: Ponder all you wish free of charge.
Major D says: “When the 2021 AGE 1-oz Uncirculated was released on Oct 7, 2021, it had a premium of $865 (Mint list price of $2,620 minus spot price of $1,755). This is 49.3% x spot.” Perhaps one could also note that lost in my illustration, is on August 30, 2021, US Mint Premium over spot for a W Uncirculated AGE was $340 and after the increase per the Federal register on August 31, 2021, by time of release on Oct 7, 2021 the US Mint with their adjusted Pricing Range Table were charging $840 over spot as far as where… Read more »
CaliSkier,
If you have nothing to offer the Trolls by way of food might they not bite your hand?
I too vote for CoinNews.net. I do come to this fine site for the comments and watched from afar during the SENZA conflagration last year
I meant to add to my comment above but the comment was closed.
Keep fighting the good fight Jeff but like my family always taught me, you cant argue with stupid.
The Kings714,
The inability to edit one’s own comments is a rather recent development; at this point it doesn’t seem like it’s going to go away all that soon. It appears that once you commit your words to the post they are at least for the moment fixed these for as long as whatever passes for eternity here.
This latest stuff sure brings back nostalgia for the SENZA days….(just kidding).
I am just going to place this here for old times sake and is not directed at anyone…IYKYK
TheKings714,
No one could take offense at the revival of such a genuine classic!
Yikes! I actually got a bad feeling all of a sudden when I first looked at it.
Jeff,
I’m not surprised considering the association. I hope you were able to brush that off and view it as a piece of history instead.
Oh yeah. It just lasted a few moments. It was in the very post that I first started calling BS on his BS. The very beginning of his end. Ahh, memories.
Impressive that TheKings714 was able to dig that one up. Someone has been paying attention to all the goings-on here.
Jeff,
I suppose one way we could better manage this is to think of SENZA as the Edsel of CoinNews.net., someone who really didn’t work out but nobody can forget that he once existed.
And of course it always helps to have a visual aid…
Major D,
That was a good one, but I could say “Easy for you to say” since I happened to be Target #1 for SENZA’s continuous jabs. Just kidding!
The Kings714,
I appears that the vote is unanimous so far, and I’m glad you feel connected enough to this occasionally rambunctious site to care enough to stick around.
Jeffee, I vote for the ‘do you need another whiff, Jeffee’ one! I just got back from a 45 mile road bike ride so I’m a bit ripe! I was thinking while on a vigorous trek, that perhaps some of you should take up biking, after all what better way to help heal our planet than to use muscle power to propel us from place to place vs. those evil internal combustion engines machines. It also might help some of you with a testosterone deficit problem, just saying. Now after getting that off my mind, I too will try to… Read more »
p.s. I was getting so used to calling Jeff ‘Jeffee’ that I did it again. I tried to edit it to just Jeff, but that damned ‘you are posting too fast’ prompt still is a problem.
Craig,
I wonder where that “you are posting too fast” came from; I’ve never seen that before in all my time on this site. It’s been with us for a while now and shows no sign of going away. I guess we’re stuck with it for the present.
Just for the fun of it I tried to edit my comment by changing the word “present” to “moment” and got hit with the big red “Verboten” sign.
Kaiser, my eyes aren’t as good as they once were, but is that a picture of the actor Jack Elam on your profile?
Major D, My dear wife warned me this might happen, that my new avatar photo would be a more than a bit too obscure to be easily recognizable, and as so often tends to be the case she was likely right. That, Major D, is the iconic French actor Eddie Constantine as the interplanetary detective “Lemmy Caution” in the amazing ahead of its time science-fiction movie Alphaville (1965, French). Rather than bother to construct an entire elaborate futuristic set and/or use any special effects or other visual tricks the now-legendary French director Jean Luc Godard employed Paris and its surrounding… Read more »
amazing resemblance to Jack Elam
Major D,
Now I see what you mean. Jack Elam played a fantastic bad guy back in the day, rather in the mean Lee Van Cleef style, with a touch of the ultimate screen villain Henry Silva to boot.
Correction to my comment above : Eddie Constantine was not a French but rather an American movie actor whose career happened to consist of appearing in French and German films.
Kaiser,
Nice “No Editing Allowed” International sign for sure. Or as we say in the German enclaves of South Central Texas, “Editing ist doch Verboten Y’all” & “Don’t Mess With Texas”…
NumisdudeTX
Seth,
Es freut mich sehr das es dir gefellt. Aber, ist doch nicht alles schon lange her verboten in Texas?
I don’t know Kaiser, but I saw someone post about it several days ago, so one would think it would be fixed by now. I posted something that I didn’t really intend to post earlier, but due to that problem I couldn’t edit or delete anything. Talk about stepping in it! Lol
Craig,
That was my thought also, but I didn’t want to make a fuss about it with the powers that be. I’ll tell you what, though; I believe it would behoove us all to think extra hard for the duration and be sure to check every comment twice both for changes of mind and for any “writing” errors.
Alright, so the only transgression in your mind was calling Jeff ‘Jeffee’? At least you enjoyed Detroit beating KC.
Major D,
First Rule of Coin Club: People don’t change.
2nd Rule of Coin Club: People don’t change.
3rd Rule of Coin Club: See above two rules.
“Jeffee, I vote for the ‘do you need another whiff, Jeffee’ one! I just got back from a 45 mile road bike ride so I’m a bit ripe! I was thinking while on a vigorous trek, that perhaps some of you should take up biking, after all what better way to help heal our planet than to use muscle power to propel us from place to place vs. those evil internal combustion engines machines. It also might help some of you with a testosterone deficit problem, just saying. Now after getting that off my mind, I too will try to… Read more »
Jeff,
You clearly possess and exhibit a very impressive sense of equanimity, one I can only dream about being privy to. As such I am better off ignoring a contentious situation than getting involved in it since I clearly lack the wherewithal to moderate or tone down my precipitously unleashed and out of control reactions. Please accept my gratitude for taking hold of the reins here and pulling back on them when and as needed, something I couldn’t do nearly as judiciously as you.
It would be great if yellow and red cards were implemented here. Yellow being a caution, and red being ejection (even if just for a few days).
Major D, Too funny! Numismatics as a sport – complete with a penalty box like in hockey…bad boys have to sit in it & ponder their actions & words. BTW, ice hockey does have the best fights, complete with sticks of all sports IMHO. Lol. Soccer has its fairly frequent riots with stadium fans/spectators & players rushing on the field & going crazy. But, getting hit upside the head hard with a big stick by a strong athletic hockey player during a game & on ice at that, even with a helmet on has got to cause a very specific… Read more »
Major D,
I wanted to add this to my above post…
“Competitive Numismatics,” coming up next on ESPN after this short commercial break…stay tuned for this gruelling battle of the brains!”…
“We are back now, and ready for the coin toss… & let the throwing of the coins & coin slabs at opposite teams begin, including the 5-ounce hockey puck silver coins! Excitement, here only on ESPN – your choice for all sports!”
NumisdudeTX
Roller Bullion!
Major D,
OMG, this is the other appropriate sport I thought of first also!
And then, of course, there’s always this alternative…
Kaiser,
An appropriate sport analogy for the behavior on here lately… Dodgeball, “in your face'” competition for the gold medal! Where’s the referees?
NumisdudeTX
Seth,
The referees may be safely ensconced in their bunker and I wouldn’t blame them at this point. As for the gold medal, I’m no longer certain there is unanimous understanding as to what type of behavior earns you that. Welcome to the jungle!
Kaiser,
I can really relate to that pic for sure! Here in Austin, Texas we have a majority of Democrats in the populace, but a Republican-majority in the Capitol building, & in the Governor’s Mansion…so our long-standing motto “Keep Austin Weird” is so very appropriate.
NumisdudeTX
Seth,
It’s as though you’re living in a luckily safe enclave encircling a clearly hostile fortress while surrounded by all manner of medievalist forces with a distinctly menacing mentality. Ach du lieber!
And lest we ever forget or sadly neglect 43-Man Sqaumish…
Major D,
Lol. A race for the gold medal!
NumisdudeTX
Major D,
Hear hear! What a splendid idea!
Jeff,
I thought perhaps I was imagining things, but having read your latest post I believe I am correct in thinking there will still be toxicity in the air here as long as that sort of acrimonious behavior isn’t permanently curtailed.
Maybe you just need a ‘cry towel’ or perhaps a good psychologist? I know I was hard on you with my titanium ‘mallet’, but when you get in the ring with me that’s what you should expect! So if it’ll help with your recovery I’ll say this. ‘I’m sorry I had to beat you so badly that you’re now reassessing your core beliefs. That’s probably a good thing’. We good now?
Can’t really argue with that as every coin does have two sides.
Or, if you use a different coin one or more sides can change.
Kaiser, I don’t for the life of me, no why you’re comparing Donald Trump with Jim Cramer of CNBC? They’re both rich, is that it?
Craig,
I wouldn’t be likely to compare them since Trump’s “riches” are but a creation of his underworld accountant’s imagination.
As to a more apt comparison, I would suggest that of George Washington with Donald Trump, with George obviously being the founder of our great nation and Donald owning the rare distinction of having caused it to founder. Since Trump doesn’t partake of alcohol the only “on the rocks” he would ask for is where his machinations are ensuring our country ends up.
Kaiser, if Trumps ‘riches’ are but a creation of an underworld accountant, then I’d like to hire that accountant. Mine is too damned honest! Lol. I have an idea about how you feel about Donald, so I’ll put you down as a maybe on voting for him in 2024. Assuming, of course, he’s the republican nominee! As to his abstinence from drinking alcohol, I sometimes think a drink, now and then, might do him some good! Cheers.
Craig, That is actually so very funny because it just so happens that the only thing I’ve ever been able to put my finger on in regard to what I could possibly admire about Donald Trump is that he doesn’t drink. So here’s the deal; you can hold him in high esteem for everything else and I will continue to applaud his non-drinking habit. By the way, if he also refrains from partaking of nicotine products I will be more than happy to add a few more points in the plus column for that very positive trait. Now, as far… Read more »
The only crying here is still coming from you. Titanium mallet? More like Fisher-Price. Figure out who you are before attempting to claim understanding of anyone else. Everyone else is ready to move on, why aren’t you? Would be nice to get back to coins with the start of a fresh week. You should really re-read (slowly) all the comments from the last few days. I am not sure how you still believe you came out ahead here. You look childish, ignorant and hateful. This one of yours didn’t help change that. Why are you even bothering to non-apologize to… Read more »
Jeff,
I remain entirely awestruck by your unbelievably erudite observations regarding the endless misbehavior of our perpetually unrepentant resident troll; no one else here has even come close to your degree of expertise and finesse in this regard.
You continue to crack me up with your hate-filled responses. As an Independent with a fiscally conservative slant, I’m used to dealing with characters like you. I did want to ask you, ‘a pearl of wisdom’ to be sure, where our beloved prez joey is today? Isn’t there anything going on this Monday here in the states? Hmmm….it’s 9/11/23…oh yeah, my oldest dachshund is now 16 1/2 years old this very day! And where will joey be for this monumental event, in Alaska? I seem to recall you calling me a liar when I stated he would be absent for… Read more »
100% projection. And, as with my absolutely-in-the-dark ex-brother-in-law, not the remoted prospect for change. Sad.
Don’t take umbrage at that, Craig. I can apply it to myself just as easily, having done so more times than I care to remember.
.
.
If 9/11 is so important to you, why did you choose to engage with me yet again? Couldn’t this have waited until tomorrow? This would be an appropriate day for you to apologize to the rest of the people here though. You know, on this day, show a sense of unity with Americans of all stripes. “And where will joey be for this monumental event, in Alaska? I seem to recall you calling me a liar when I stated he would be absent for this event last week. Not very good optics to be sure. Since you obviously have no… Read more »
Jeff Legan, As always, a fantastic summation of the critical events of the day not only here at our beloved website but out in the bigger world where the things happen that provide grist for our mill. These days just hearing that repulsive prevaricating sociopath Trump’s name almost makes me physically ill. The first President in the history of the United States of America to not only commit treason but foment a violent insurrection as the means of doing so has left such a horrific blotch on our nation’s name and purpose if it weren’t true no one would be… Read more »
Kaiser, You really need to come up with some new lines. President Donald Trump has committed ‘treason’, really? ‘Foment a violent insurrection’ (my favourite humorous line of yours) how, by stating ‘march peacefully to the capitol and make your voices heard’. Isn’t that what people do when they demonstrate? President Donald Trump didn’t say ‘Goose step to the capitol and burn the place down’ did he? If President Donald Trump said that, I missed it. I’ve still got you down for a ‘maybe’ on voting for President Donald Trump for his third term. And Kaiser, don’t let these politicians eat… Read more »
“President Donald Trump has committed ‘treason’, really? ‘Foment a violent insurrection’ (my favourite humorous line of yours) how, by stating ‘march peacefully to the capitol and make your voices heard’. Isn’t that what people do when they demonstrate? President Donald Trump didn’t say ‘Goose step to the capitol and burn the place down’ did he? If President Donald Trump said that, I missed it.“—You miss everything else, why not that as well? I hope you enjoy the upcoming court proceedings as much as we will. Will you watch them live on TV? Better keep that crying towel you keep bringing… Read more »
More utter nonsense from the ‘king of nonsense’. Might I suggest a line from W. Shakespeare; ‘Brevity is the soul of wit’. Your ‘misstatements’ could use a ‘hearty’ dose of both! Am I right? Maybe then you wouldn’t be so boring. And let me ask you a serious question, do you actually watch our ‘president’ during one of his world events. I’m referring to the decrepit biden, not our former President Donald Trump. To say Biden’s an embarrassment to all ‘people living in this country’ is being overly kind, in my humble opinion. If he was a dog, or cat… Read more »
Thanks for making this so easy for me. “More utter nonsense from the ‘king of nonsense’.“—Does King Donald know you are offering his crown to others? “Might I suggest a line from W. Shakespeare; ‘Brevity is the soul of wit’. Your ‘misstatements’ could use a ‘hearty’ dose of both! Am I right?“—Not so far. Where is your rebuttal? You haven’t shown any misstatements other than your own. 9/11 Biden/military airbase versus Trump/video. Praise? Condemnation? Remember? You have no brevity, soul, or wit. You took another whole paragraph to answer my closing serious question “Have you no sense of shame?” A… Read more »
Craig, Thanks! I just knew, or was hoping, that you couldn’t be as mean as some of your comments here lately. I try hard to respect people as much as I can, but I can’t stand lies & misinformation as it hurts everyone in the long run. Of course we all have our own strong opinions about a lot of topics, but I’ll try to keep most of mine to the hobby we share. I also like humor greatly, both my strange sense of it and others jokes & funny sayings/quotes – and I love laughing! I appreciate you “accepting”… Read more »
Hi Seth,
Thank you for your comments over the years (You and Kaiser Wilhelm are the earliest still active voices I can remember from when I first visited here) and for using your voice to push back on the partisan political comments this time around. I very much appreciate that you spoke up repeatedly, factually, and reasonably. You deserve a PLUR yourself, so PLUR.
Jeff,
Thanks greatly. I appreciate that, & I’ve learned a thing or two from you about a number of subjects for sure, including coins.
Happy Collecting Jeff!
NumisdudeTX
Jeff, you’ve put your heart out there appealing for civility. I hope everyone can give it a sincere go.
Thanks Major D. For the 2nd time now, your help has been invaluable to me. Lets hope the 2nd time is actually over. Craig’s last comment didn’t exactly radiate “closure” to me. Dazed and Coinfused posted a new rant just a few hours ago on another thread. Lets also hope you won’t have to step up again for a 3rd time. Or at least lets hope it is more than 3 years from now, a sign of progress being made.
Jeff Legan and Major D,
You know, guys, this is my third rodeo since I experienced the before your time Milhouse episode as the deliberately demoralizing debacle it was.
As they used to say in the old cowboys and Indians circle the wagons peering out into the dark night movies, “It’s quiet out there. Too quiet.”
Sometimes you just can’t win for losing, brothers.
Jeff Legan,
It just belatedly occurred to me that stating we have a bit of a troll problem here seems to someone with my outlook akin to opining that the Titanic experienced no more than a minor difficulty. This is precisely why I believe you to be so much better suited than I am to troll management on this site since you are able to go after this kind of infection with the carefully considered use of a scalpel while I have the distinct tendency to lean ever so precipitously toward complete amputation.
The site isn’t sunk yet, Kaiser Wilhelm. Just Craig’s reputation.
Good point, Jeff Legan, and the prior trollage that has occurred here with us coming out of it all still intact as a community can definitely attest to that.
I couldn’t stop salivating as I was reading the above article and gazing longingly at all of those unbelievably beautiful (and rare) coins. I keep telling myself that knowing they exist is enough for my purposes, like when you’re touring a museum and understand that none of the masterpieces gracing the walls can or will ever be yours.
Kaiser, undoubtably they’re all rare and valuable. But to call them all beautiful is too much of a stretch for me bc of the cheesy, cartoonish artwork on several of them. But two out of three ain’t bad!
Kaiser, I didn’t mean for this to sound so off putting. Beauty is, as they say, in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes I can’t help being the contrarian.
Major D,
Not to worry, not the slightest bit of offense whatsoever taken. After all, you know I make a big point out of “each to his own” and, as you already said, that “beauty is [most definitely and always] in the eyes of the beholder.” Call ’em as you see ’em!
The last two could have been Mr. Bean’s rendition of Whistler’s Mother, but it’s gold so it’s all good!
“Goldfinger, he’s the one with the Midas touch, the spider’s touch.”
.
We will see more later here on CoinNews assuredly. WORTHY Read and solicitation to participate! BREAKING US Mint Coin News…
“An Invitation to All Americans: Honor Our Nation’s History with New Designs for United States Coins”(9/8/21)
https://www.usmint.gov/news/press-releases/an-invitation-to-all-americans-honor-our-nations-history-with-new-designs-for-united-states-coins
PS The above is the link to the United States Mint Press Release from yesterday:
Additional information also WORTHY of posting from the US Mint.
“The Mint is considering a variety of possible themes for these special circulating coins and we invite all Americans to take a brief survey about the thematic concepts being considered. Please visit https://catalog.usmint.gov/semiq to take the survey, which is open now through October 10, 2023”
CaliSkier,
I took the survey. Whether or not it makes any difference it felt good to do it. Thanks!
Man, I was just fast forwarding thru some recorded Magic Mike shows on my dvd and just happened to see him offering the 2014 W 50th Anniversary Proof Gold Kennedy Half Dollar coin. He was selling this incredibly historic Kennedy for just $2299.95. Can we just say $2300? I bought a few of these from the mint and after checking my mint receipt , I keep all receipts organised in date order in my files, noted that I paid $1240/coin. Who says you can’t make a bit of money owning coins?
How does that song go? “I was in the right place, and it was the right time.” I think I might have purposely mixed up the phrasing a bit, but you get the general idea.
Good one Kaiser. Unfortunately, and I say that only because I’m like you (at least concerning my coins, Lol), I’ll most likely never realise any profit from them as I have no desire to sell any. I do enjoy purchasing Au coins, but only at a reasonable premium over the spot price. I do wonder if there is a hidden agenda to discourage folks from acquiring Au and even Ag coins from the mint. Maybe there is an anticipated shortage in both of these metals and selling them in coin form for a small premium isn’t sustainable. It makes no… Read more »
Thanks, Craig. For true collectors like ourselves the profit motive shouldn’t come anywhere near the top of our list of reasons to want to collect coins. The history, artistry, and sheer all-around pleasure we can get from having these little beauties in our possession is worth far more than whatever the financial prospects of holding on to them might be or ever hope to bring us. As far as why the premium for numismatic versions of gold and silver coins are so many times higher than for the bullion versions of same I really haven’t been able to figure out,… Read more »
Craig, It’s a very complicated thing in some ways, but actually simple in other ways…Since the U.S. Mint is a 100% government monopoly when it comes to legal tender coins of the USA, they can charge whatever they want for any coin. Because of that situation, we collectors have to pay the price or forget about getting the coins at issue price. FOMO causes many collectors to just buy almost anything at any price the Mint charges. The Mint’s Numismatic Program coins & medals cannot lose money or cost the taxpayer 1 cent under the regulations, so they make up… Read more »
I got the WWII privy mark gold coin. I’ll likely never sell it but a saw a value listed recently for it at $25,000.
Reb, what you’re saying kind of sounds straightforward? Are you referring to the V75 “End of World War II 75th Anniversary American Eagle Gold Proof Coin”, with the V75 Privy mark and a mintage of less than 1945? Or are you referring to the “End of World War II 75th Anniversary 24-Karat Gold Coin”. Since you didn’t use V75 or American Gold Eagle, I’m leaning towards the latter? However since you mention $25,000, that implies the former? Either way, congratulations on picking up a coin you wanted. Now, are you willing to share what “you” paid or were charged for… Read more »
Again, Reb I ask as many a listing looks like this one(below) and for those not on a hyper alert before purchasing has surely pulled the trigger on the “V75 Label” thinking they are buying a V75 “Privy” gold coin? “2020 W Burnished Gold Eagle PCGS SP70 First Strike Gold Shield V75 Label OGP+BOX” FYI for any who may not be aware. You can get coins with a V75 “Label” that are not actual V75 “Privy” marked coins. Marketing and capitalism at its finest, however confusing, deceptive IMO, to newer or uneducated collectors to say the very least. Caveat Emptor!… Read more »
Do you know who’s counterfeiting these V75 gold coins? This is the reason I rarely buy a coin from anywhere but the mint.
More than likely China, Craig. Here is a throwback article from our friends over Numismatic News. “Caution: Hundreds of Websites Selling Counterfeit Gold, Silver Coins”, “the “gold coin” and all 50 “silver coins” he received are counterfeits apparently made in China, according to the non-profit Anti-Counterfeiting Educational Foundation (ACEF).”
https://www.numismaticnews.net/us-coins/caution-hundreds-of-websites-selling-counterfeit-gold-silver-coins
“I started suspecting they were not genuine when tracking information for my orders was in Chinese,” said Oliver. “That was a red flag.” Really, do you think? LOL.
… and they were offered in Facebook ads? Uh … no thanks.
REB and Major D,
Facebook, Etsy and Amazon; the go-to numismatic sites.
You’ve got to do your own research. I’d say US Mint commemoratives in OGP w COA are a safe bet because no one wants them, hence low demand and large number of different designs, mint marks, finishes, sizes, and compositions means extremely low risk on any counterfeits. ASE’s and AGE’s on the other hand, extremely high risk. Future modern Morgan and Peace dollars may get there, too.
Major D,
I would heartily agree. That is an extremely sound supposition of yours regarding the relative non-counterfeit security that picking up extremely low interest coinage such as obscure commemoratives from sources other than the U.S. Mint likely brings with it. After all, if there is so little demand for a coin then why would the Chinese want to bother to duplicate it?
Just on the very slightest of chances anybody missed that I’m totally kidding here, those are the worst coin sites possible!
Kaiser, I don’t usually go after commemoratives from other mints- although I did get a 1988 Marshall Island space shuttle Discovery and have several from Canada, e.g. 2022 Farewell to the Penny and 2023’s commemoration of the 1947 Maple Leaf five-cent coin. Sarcasm aside I actually like a lot of the US Mint commemoratives and think many are highly overlooked. I don’t mind the low interest/demand right now- it just means that I can pick them up for cheap on Ebay auctions. Two other big pluses: very low mintages on several bc the Mint destroys the unsold ones at the… Read more »
Sarcasm from others I mean. I am very sincere in my like for commemoratives.
Major D,
To paraphrase a popular song, “The first clue is always the deepest.”
Thanks for the article, CalSkier. I’ve been aware of Chinese counterfeiting coins for some time, but wasn’t aware of them faking those gold V75 WWII coins. That would be a very humbling feeling if one paid tens of thousands of dollars for a gold V75 only to find out it was fake. I have to say though that the Chinese have some skilled craftsmen as I’ve seen some of their counterfeit coins and they look damned good. I couldn’t tell the difference from an original, legal U.S. coin.Caveat Emptor, indeed!
Craig and CaliSkier,
One thing I’ve noticed, though, as I’ve been following the modernization of Chinese manufacturing; as good as their counterfeit coins may be their attempts at producing successful commercial aircraft still come up quite a bit short.
CaliSkier and Craig,
Wait. What? I’ve been using Crust toothpaste for years, and my longtime dentist swears by it! After all, isn’t Shanghai the tooth care capital of the world?
Best … gif … EVER!
REB,
It absolutely positively is, and I thank you for recognizing that!
Craig,
Very good point. And I would be inclined to add, this is exactly why I never purchase any coins from anywhere else than the Mint. Much as we love to hate the Mint’s occasional shenanigans, one thing you can count on is that that you’re getting a coin that is hot off the original presses.
Kaiser, I should amend my earlier post, as the fact is I have bought coins from outside of the Mints offerings on multiple occasions. I’ve purchased some Kilo silver Kookaburras from the Perth Mint and I’ve also purchased a few coins from the Royal Canadian Mint as well. These are all reputable institutions, as far as I know, so I feel confident the coins I receive are legitimate. You should experience the quality of the Perth Mint, they really do an outstanding job with their coinage. I may peruse some online coin sites to get a handle on the sales/price… Read more »
Gotta give a shout out to The Royal Mint as well. I especially like the 10-oz British Silver Royal Arms and the 10-oz Silver Tudor Beasts series. I’ve ordered direct from the Mint as well as buying some from JM Bullion- depending on which one has the better price. Nice looking coins.
I have ordered a couple proof sets from The Royal Mint years ago, but even with the coins in the plastic holder they still became tarnished, which was a bummer. None of my other sets ever did this. I haven’t bought from them in probably 20 years, so maybe they’ve improved on their packaging . The 10 ounce British Silver Royal Arms, is that a coin or a bar? And what did they price those at…sounds interesting to me. Thanks.
It’s a coin with a 3.5-inch diameter. A nice, shiny hockey puck.
I bought my 2022 10-oz British Silver Royal Arms Coin (BU) from JM Bullion for $271.46 including shipping almost exactly one year ago (on Sept 10, 2022). They’re currently selling (and I’ve been eyeing) the 2023 version for $293.80 check/wire or $306.04 card/ PayPal: 2023 10 oz British Silver Royal Arms Coin (BU) l JM Bullion™ It’s no longer available at The Royal Mint.
Major D,
That’s a real snazzy ducat you have there. Thanks for showing us!
Craig, Actually, that doesn’t in any way detract from what you stated earlier. As far as I’m concerned as long as you are making your purchases directly from a national mint they are assuredly as trustworthy a transaction as one you would ever conduct with the U.S. Mint. I do occasionally peruse the websites of the Canadian, Perth, and British mints and while I see a whole slew of products I would like to jump right on there is always the little matter of “insufficient funds” – not the bank notice sort but rather the personal checkbook kind – that… Read more »
It’s the Privy mark coin. I got the 24-karat coin and the 4-coin Eagle set that year as well. As I’ve said before, I’ve been a slave to all precious metals proof coins since 1960. Guess I should change my handle to “60 Proof”. The coin is identical to the one-ounce proof that year except for the mark, the single coin packaging, and the COA. I believe it came with the original shipping box & packing slip but I can’t remember. I got it through the “or?” option (eBay within a couple of days of issue as it was beginning… Read more »
REB,
The other side of that is if the Mint had made more of that coin of yours it most definitely wouldn’t be worth nearly as much as it is now.
Yes, it is somewhat of a dilemma. But I generally fall on the side of the collector over the investor/speculator. I kind of resent paying an artificially inflated price for a “scarce” coin that I still would have purchased even with a higher mintage. I would honestly prefer if ALL coins were purchasable as subscriptions. Make the subscription period shorter (24 or 48 hours, perhaps) if the Mint desires scarcity. But give everyone who wants the coin a legitimate shot at buying it. On the other side of the coin (I know, a pun), NO coin should continue to be… Read more »
REB,
Collecting over speculating is my choice, i.e. that’s my side of the coin also. And you’re right, subscriptions are a great help and a major leg up for us small collectors to get our share of the Mint’s offerings. As far as how long coins should be sold by the Mint, I quite frankly take no hard position on that, especially since if I did on occasion want a long previously released coin I would rather be able to still buy it from the Mint instead of going somewhere else for it. Just sayin’.
You are surely one lucky collector REB. I tried, but I came up short, when trying to snag that one (I didn’t have any luck with the silver ones either). The numismatic gods were kind to you that day and I would never let it go either!
I was as unlucky as you with the Mint that day (I did score the silver though). Within the week, I got the gold via the secondary market with a sizable markup. Still, with a 300+% appreciation and rising, I’m happy with my “investment”.
Thanks for filling in the blanks and congrats on scoring one of those for your collection Reb! I tried as literally almost everyone and their brother, sister, cousin, uncle, niece, nephew, mother, father, as well as friends were trying to score that day! Oh yeah, did I mention the dealers, their networks and bots! Of course the DEMAND, beyond outstripped supply for what we all knew, would equate to a modern grand slam walk off homer in game seven, bottom of the ninth, in the World Series! LOL I think the US Mint missed an opportunity to make more money… Read more »
Thanks, CaliSkier. I don’t generally use secondary sources for coin purchases. Some of the quick bot-infused sellouts forced my hand. The 2019 S ERP was particularly irksome. That was the one with the signed early-issue certificates. The seller claimed the coin was “damaged” (despite my asking that he send me the shipping box unopened) and canceled the deal as the price climbed higher. I suspect he turned around and sold the coin at a higher price. The guy from whom I bought the coin had been burned by a previous buyer who was after a signed COA. I got lucky… Read more »
Craig,
I didn’t go for the gold since I never do but I went for the silver and got zip.
Jackpot, brother REB!
How much it wrote?? $$$$$
I’m guessing that is meant to say “worth”.