[...] the U.S. is considering metal composition changes to reduce the penny cost and is ramping up a Lincoln commemorative coin program starting in 2009, [...]
[...] with no clear direction for its smallest coin. Some say there are too many pennies and want to melt them for their copper value while others want to protect them. Some want to eliminate the penny [...]
Why would anybody want to go into business melting down pennies for their copper? Most of the pennies in circulation today were minted after 1983, when their composition was changed from 95% copper, 5% zinc to the current 97.5% zinc, 2.5% copper. Since each coin weighs only 2.5 grams, that means today’s pennies are merely copper-plated zinc with 0.0625 grams of copper per coin. That means you would need approximately 7257 pennies (yes, $72.57 worth) to get 1 pound of copper. You still have to melt them down and separate the copper from the zinc. And zinc is currently selling for around 1/4th the price of copper. Sounds like a political stunt to me, or perhaps just plain stupidity or lack of understanding; I don’t think much of politicians.
Given that the US Government is barred from creating ANY currency which is not made of gold or silver, none of the currency, nor rules about what you can do with it are legal.
Still, I don’t think that melting 1 & 5 cent pieces, even older ones, is worthwhile. Older coins will usually have value to collectors.
Probably, the rule is yet another silly rule passed to direct attention away from something else which they are doing.
Manufacturing them out of plastic is a good switch, as would doing so for paper bills. They last longer and have essentially no value in and of themselves.
There is a an argument for even smaller values, as electronically transmitted intellectual property could be profitable at extremely low prices, should the transaction costs charged by the financial industry be more reasonable.
But if I find myself destitute, I will certainly make a point of videotaping myself melting coins in front of treasury officers–5 years in prison might be an improvement over starving on the streets.
“And here’s the kicker… How can anyone mentally picture a person getting sent to prison for 5 years one day and then the very next day make money… It doesn’t sit right.”
You’ve got ME confused. “…then the very next day make money…”
Where and how do they ‘make money’ the very next day?
“And here’s the kicker…” That kind of confused me too. I suspect that thought didn’t fully make it into print.
As for the currency issue, the US Constitution (which is the basis for all federal law, or is supposed to be at least) says in article 1 section 8 that Congress can coin money and regulate its value, but it doesn’t state what materials may be used. However, it specifically says “coin”, and doesn’t allow for printing paper money, and that was by design (see http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_a8.html#Q154). Original paper money could be redeemed for coin. It seems that the Supremes decided in 1871 that paper money was okay, because they said so (law out of thin air, basically.)
On the other hand, it is totally legal for regular Americans to print money and mint coins, so long as we don’t copy the current design of US coin. Getting other people to accept your unique currency though is another story… bet you could do it with gold and silver though! Also, note that it’s legal to recreate old designs, at least according to the constitution. And since the government is not authorized to print paper money, it seems they should not be able to stop people from printing their own “Federal Reserve Notes” just as the Feds do!
I collect pennies because I love US coins. I don’t melt them down, however, if I own a pemmy, I can do whatever I want with it. No one can tell me what I can and cannot do with my coins or cash. Period.
You cannot own US currency, thus you cannot (legally) do whatever you like with it. If you could legally own US currency, then you could also legally make your own, but we all know where that’ll get you!
November 9th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
[...] had its own article on the topic and, like other news organizations, coin collectors and bloggers, everyone was interestingly [...]
November 13th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
[...] ban on melting pennies and its copper and the new legislation to remove it is one thing. That should sort itself [...]
November 14th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
[...] the U.S. is considering metal composition changes to reduce the penny cost and is ramping up a Lincoln commemorative coin program starting in 2009, [...]
December 5th, 2007 at 10:25 am
[...] with no clear direction for its smallest coin. Some say there are too many pennies and want to melt them for their copper value while others want to protect them. Some want to eliminate the penny [...]
April 25th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Why would anybody want to go into business melting down pennies for their copper? Most of the pennies in circulation today were minted after 1983, when their composition was changed from 95% copper, 5% zinc to the current 97.5% zinc, 2.5% copper. Since each coin weighs only 2.5 grams, that means today’s pennies are merely copper-plated zinc with 0.0625 grams of copper per coin. That means you would need approximately 7257 pennies (yes, $72.57 worth) to get 1 pound of copper. You still have to melt them down and separate the copper from the zinc. And zinc is currently selling for around 1/4th the price of copper. Sounds like a political stunt to me, or perhaps just plain stupidity or lack of understanding; I don’t think much of politicians.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Given that the US Government is barred from creating ANY currency which is not made of gold or silver, none of the currency, nor rules about what you can do with it are legal.
Still, I don’t think that melting 1 & 5 cent pieces, even older ones, is worthwhile. Older coins will usually have value to collectors.
Probably, the rule is yet another silly rule passed to direct attention away from something else which they are doing.
Manufacturing them out of plastic is a good switch, as would doing so for paper bills. They last longer and have essentially no value in and of themselves.
There is a an argument for even smaller values, as electronically transmitted intellectual property could be profitable at extremely low prices, should the transaction costs charged by the financial industry be more reasonable.
But if I find myself destitute, I will certainly make a point of videotaping myself melting coins in front of treasury officers–5 years in prison might be an improvement over starving on the streets.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
“And here’s the kicker… How can anyone mentally picture a person getting sent to prison for 5 years one day and then the very next day make money… It doesn’t sit right.”
You’ve got ME confused. “…then the very next day make money…”
Where and how do they ‘make money’ the very next day?
May 1st, 2008 at 5:50 am
“And here’s the kicker…” That kind of confused me too. I suspect that thought didn’t fully make it into print.
As for the currency issue, the US Constitution (which is the basis for all federal law, or is supposed to be at least) says in article 1 section 8 that Congress can coin money and regulate its value, but it doesn’t state what materials may be used. However, it specifically says “coin”, and doesn’t allow for printing paper money, and that was by design (see http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_a8.html#Q154). Original paper money could be redeemed for coin. It seems that the Supremes decided in 1871 that paper money was okay, because they said so (law out of thin air, basically.)
On the other hand, it is totally legal for regular Americans to print money and mint coins, so long as we don’t copy the current design of US coin. Getting other people to accept your unique currency though is another story… bet you could do it with gold and silver though! Also, note that it’s legal to recreate old designs, at least according to the constitution. And since the government is not authorized to print paper money, it seems they should not be able to stop people from printing their own “Federal Reserve Notes” just as the Feds do!
September 29th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
I collect pennies because I love US coins. I don’t melt them down, however, if I own a pemmy, I can do whatever I want with it. No one can tell me what I can and cannot do with my coins or cash. Period.
September 30th, 2008 at 5:34 am
You cannot own US currency, thus you cannot (legally) do whatever you like with it. If you could legally own US currency, then you could also legally make your own, but we all know where that’ll get you!